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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Indaloman on Thursday 28 December 23 20:06 GMT (UK)
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I have the name of my ancestor, he married in 1807, he was a last maker and that is it nothing else. A kind member produced a list of William Knight but how to go about finding out which may be the person I am looking for. I have his children etc. I know his wife's name and that is it nothing more.
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Previous thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=798150.9
And one before that in 2015
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=715748.msg5594069#msg5594069
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I see from previous threads that other chatters are finding most of your information for you .
From the number of posts made you obviously know by now that there was a naming pattern and from the naming patterns used by families the important names for paternal lines are first male son, second female daughter gives names of the groom's parents, the bride's parents are named in the first baby girl and second baby son
Anyne with a trade, such as a cobbler, must have money in the family because a father had to pay for an offspring's apprenticeship. The government taxed that money which is why there should be a record somewhere..
The only "Last" that I've heard of is a "shoe Last" that cobblers used. They're very heavy. I used to have one too, until it was stolen for it's cast iron value.
It had been passed down through the generations and it was used to hold a shoe upside down so that you could hammer metal stegs into the heels and toes on boys boots and later on to hold a shoe steady so that you could stick a leather "stick on" sole to the sole of the shoe.
url link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01svt/
I've never had a pair of "bespoke" shoes made especially to fit my feet but here's a description:-
"Bespoke shoes or custom shoes are shoes made especially for a certain customer by a shoemaker. The feet are measured and a wooden last for each foot is created. At the fitting, the customer tries the prototype pair of shoes made in an inexpensive leather and the shoemaker checks if anything needs to be changed.
https://www.clothhouse.com/products/shoe-lasts-large
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Have you tried looking at the original marriage record for him in Millbrook, to see the names of the witnesses to the marriage?
There is a William Knight death registered in 1844 in Southampton. Aged 71. Vol 07, page 138. registered in the September quarter.
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A shoe Last can also be a wooden former, often shaped and adjustable to match a specific persons foot.
A Cordwainer, a maker of fine shoes, would have wooden lasts made specifically to match a regular clients feet.
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Anyne with a trade, such as a cobbler, must have money in the family because a father had to pay for an offspring's apprenticeship.
Not always, my gt grandfather was apprenticed to this trade. He was illegitimate and born in the workhouse. His mother died when he was 3 and he was still in the workhouse age 9. His apprenticeship was mentioned in newspapers when he fell out with his Master.
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Have you tried looking at the original marriage record for him in Millbrook, to see the names of the witnesses to the marriage?
There is a William Knight death registered in 1844 in Southampton. Aged 71. Vol 07, page 138. registered in the September quarter.
See the previous threads as posted by jc26red. The witnesses were Sarah COGWELL and James MARTIN.
Is this the correct order of births?
Rachel (born 8 Jan 1809)
Jabez James (born 14 Jan 1812)
William (born 9 June 1814)
Hannah (born 31 March 1816)
Benjamin (born 29 Jun 1825)
Rebecca (baptised 17 Oct 1826)
Janet (born 1 Oct 1826)
Jabez, William, Hannah and Janet were entered into the birth registers of the Above Bar Chapel. I cannot see an original image for Benjamin but transcriptions have two dates, 29 June and 8 July, presumedly birth and baptism. I do wonder if Janet and Rebecca are the same child. There is a very large gap between Hannah and Benjamin.
Debra :D
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My late Dad used to say a well mannered cobbler was a gentleman to the last..
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There is an apprenticeship for a William Knight in 1790 to Thomas King, a patten maker of Portsea. Unfortunately no indication of William's parentage or place of origin.
This might fit with your William's age and it is possible that William went on to last making as well.
To assist others, the reference for the 1841 census is HO107/417 Book 6/35 p 22. William was recorded as born in county.
Nell
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Have you tried looking at the original marriage record for him in Millbrook, to see the names of the witnesses to the marriage?
There is a William Knight death registered in 1844 in Southampton. Aged 71. Vol 07, page 138. registered in the September quarter.
See the previous threads as posted by jc26red. The witnesses were Sarah COGWELL and James MARTIN.
Debra :D
I was trying to first look up the info from scratch, and to see if I could find a scan of the original marriage register on Anc or FindMyPast first, to save me having to spend several minutes wading through years old threads. Could not find one, so I assume Millbrook is not yet included in the new Hants collections on Anc unless I am missing something.
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A shoe Last can also be a wooden former, often shaped and adjustable to match a specific persons foot.
A Cordwainer, a maker of fine shoes, would have wooden lasts made specifically to match a regular clients feet.
On a main road in my home town in East Riding of Yorkshire you could see a man sitting cross legged in his bay window busily working on leather shoes. He was a bespoke shoemaker and when I married I learnt that my new brother in law always bought his shoes from that man.
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There is an apprenticeship for a William Knight in 1790 to Thomas King, a patten maker of Portsea. Unfortunately no indication of William's parentage or place of origin.
This might fit with your William's age and it is possible that William went on to last making as well.
To assist others, the reference for the 1841 census is HO107/417 Book 6/35 p 22. William was recorded as born in county.
Nell
This one would go to the top of the research list.
Being Apprenticed to a Pattern Maker would give him the skills to use to make the Wooden Shoe Patterns that Shoemakers and Cordwainers use.
Trivia.
In the context of the Apprenticeship a Pattern is possibly a shaped wooden former that is made to be used in the metal casting industry. Casting sand is laid around the pattern in a mound and the pattern is then removed and molten metal, probably Iron, is poured into space where the pattern was.
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Biggles, thank you for the support with regard to the apprenticeship record.
If I may say, there is a difference between a patten (as in my post above) and a pattern. You are correct about patterns, but pattens are quite specifically made for the feet! Check out the website of the Worshipful Company of pattenmakers:
https://www.pattenmakers.co.uk/
There are a couple of illustrations of pattens there.
Nell