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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Calleva on Saturday 16 March 24 10:26 GMT (UK)
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Betsy Smith was born illegitimate 30th August 1874 in Coignascalan (Coignascallan) Moy and Dalarossie, Invernessshire. The birth record has ‘Betsy’.
Her father was John Smith, shepherd, mother Betsy Noble.
Apart from details of her birth, the only other record I’ve found is in the 1881 Census when she was shown aged 6 with her grandparents Alexander and Margaret Smith in Inverallan, Cromdale’.
Her mother married Donald McBean, gamekeeper, 3rd January 1878 with a daughter Isabella born 13th March 1879. I think Isabella died in Otago NZ in 1955.
Donald died in 1881 in Coignafearn and Betsy his wife in 1907 in Inverness.
I can find no trace of Betsy Smith or her father John after 1881 and would welcome any information on them both after this date appreciating their surname is unfortunately very common.
Many thanks
Stuart
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Who reported Betsy's death in 1907? I can't see a Betsy McBean death reg in 1907 on SP
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Who reported Betsy's death in 1907? I can't see a Betsy McBean death reg in 1907 on SP
The record on SP has Elizabeth MacBean died 30th October 1907. The informant was a neighbour Wm MacQueen.
I’m surmising a family connection would have been mentioned at the time so I assume he was not related.
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Have you got her grandparents in 1891 - are they at the same place?
What about her mother and other daughter - are they together in 1891?
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Have you got her grandparents in 1891 - are they at the same place?
What about her mother and other daughter - are they together in 1891?
Thank you for your queries.
Both grandparents died before 1891.
I’ve been unable to trace her mother and half sister (as well as her father) in the 1891 Census and subsequently in any other records apart from her mother’s death in 1907.
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I can see from the 1881 census address Coignafearn Moy and Dalarossie
Donald Macbean age 40 ( gamekeeper )
Bessie Macbean age 24 born Inverness wife
Bella Macbean age 2 born Moy and Dalarossie about 1879
Jessie Macbean age 10 months born Moy and Dalarossie
Maggie Reid age 15 general domestic servant
Is this not the family on the 1891 census Coignascalan Moy and Dalarossie ?
Donald Macrae age 60 shepherd
Maggie Macrae age 49 sister
Betse Mcbean age 33 recorded as niece born Inverness
Jessie Mcbean age 10 recorded as granddaughter born Dalarossie
Jessie McLennon age 29 visitor
James Ferguson age 10 visitor
Viewing the original on Scotlandspeople will let you see if Betse Mcbean is a widow
There is also this for Bella McBean
1891 census address Dalmagarry Moy and Dalarossie ?
Donald Mackintosh age 23 farmer
Sisters Anne and Maggie Mackintosh
Bella Mcbean age 12 born Moy Inverness boarder
Rosie
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So Betsy Smith b 1874 was not with her mother in 1891 or her aunt & uncle. She was with the Macrae's in 1881
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This is also a possibility for Jessie McBean 1901 census
Jessie McBean age 20 born Dalarossie housemaid
Address Gallowhill Paisley
Possible marriage 16 January 1908 Lymington Southampton
Jessie Mcbean age 27 father Donald McBean deceased
Spouse Alexander Thoms age 28 Police Constable
1911 census lists her as born in Inverness
Rosie
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So Betsy Smith b 1874 was not with her mother in 1891 or her aunt & uncle. She was with the Macrae's in 1881
I think this is Betsy Smith b1874 on the 1881 census
Address Balnain Inverallan Cromdale
Alexr Smith 76
Margt Smith 65
Betsy Smith b 1875 Moy Inverness granddaughter
Rosie
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[quote author=rosie17 link=topic=881211.msg7537682#msg7537682 date=171062464
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I can see from the 1881 census address Coignafearn Moy
Is this not the family on the 1891 census Coignascalan Moy and Dalarossie ?
Donald Macrae age 60 shepherd
Maggie Macrae age 49 sister
Betse Mcbean age 33 recorded as niece born Inverness
Jessie Mcbean age 10 recorded as granddaughter born Dalarossie
Jessie McLennon age 29 visitor
James Ferguson age 10 visitor
Viewing the original on Scotlandspeople will let you see if Betse Mcbean is a widow.
Rosie
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[/quote]
Thanks Rosie
Yes Betsy is indeed described as a widow in the 1891 Census entry you found, as well as her daughter Bella at another household.
So Betsy Smith b 1874 was not with her mother in 1891 or her aunt & uncle. She was with the Macrae's in 1881
Sorry Carole, Betsy Smith was with her paternal grandparents Alexander and Margaret Smith in 1881 as mentioned (I have that Census record) but you are quite right that she was not with her mother or either of her siblings in 1891.
Stuart
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Thanks Rosie,
Snap!
Stuart
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Thanks Rosie,
Snap!
Stuart
Still no further advanced with Betsy born 1874 ???
Rosie
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[/quote]
Still no further advanced with Betsy born 1874 ???
Rosie
[/quote]
I’m in the same boat.
To sum up - based on SP she doesn’t seem to be recorded in the 1891 Census when she would have been about 16 with no evidence she died before then.
If that is the case, I’m now wondering if she had left Scotland by 1891.
It’s possible she stayed with her Grandfather after her Grandmother died in 1885 until his death in 1888, but this is just speculation. She would have been about 14 when he died.
Stuart
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The other thing I was thinking was maybe when the grandparents died she was Adopted and her name was changed .Nothing jumping out on immigration records either what record do you have for the father John Smith 1881 census ?
Rosie
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The other thing I was thinking was maybe when the grandparents died she was Adopted and her name was changed .Nothing jumping out on immigration records either what record do you have for the father John Smith 1881 census ?
Rosie
I hadn’t thought of adoption but find out there are no records of adoptions before 1930 held by NRS, which doesn’t make things any easier.
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/research-guides/research-guides-a-z/adoption-recordshttps://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/research-guides/research-guides-a-z/adoption-records
I think it very likely that you tracked down her half sister Jessie to Lymington, and wonder if Betsy may have moved to England appreciating this a very long shot.
I haven’t tracked down her father in the 1881 Census but will plod through the LDS record on SP which is free to access - nice to get some luck particularly as I am looking for a John Smith!
Stuart
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I have looked for Betsy in England but not much success I did see a few records for a Elizabeth Smyth/Smith born Scotland in Ireland . Clutching at straws here there was a marriage 1910 Downpatrick Ireland for a Elizabeth Smith to a Thomas Fitzpatrick
Father's name John Smith ( farmer ) unfortunately the Irish records don't give much information. You can view the records free on civilrecords.irishgenealogy
Have you found John Smith in any census records I have only seen the one in 1851 ?
Rosie
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I have looked for Betsy in England but not much success I did see a few records for a Elizabeth Smyth/Smith born Scotland in Ireland . Clutching at straws here there was a marriage 1910 Downpatrick Ireland for a Elizabeth Smith to a Thomas Fitzpatrick
Father's name John Smith ( farmer ) unfortunately the Irish records don't give much information. You can view the records free on civilrecords.irishgenealogy
Have you found John Smith in any census records I have only seen the one in 1851 ?
Rosie
Thank you for the information you’ve gleaned from the Irish genealogy site (which incidentally I enjoy exploring for other branches of the family- so easy to use and also free).
The only John Smith I’ve found in Census information who is a possibility is in the 1881 Census for Nairn, This John Smith is a lodger in 3 Douglas Street. He is described as a Flesher and Game dealer aged 35 born in Inverallan. There is no mention of Betsy
While Nairn is not that far from Speyside and his occupation would be consistent with his farming background his age is 1 or 2 years out from the only record I have of his birth. This is a page from a family New Testament in the Gaelic which lists the children born to Alexander and Margaret Smith at Skye of Curr. John’s birthdate is shown 24th April 1847.
Oddly have not been able to find a record of John’s birth on SP, also that of his brother George whose birthdate is shown in the New Testament page as 7th September 1848.
SP does have records of his sister Jane Ann born 1844 and brother James in 1842 so I’m wondering if the family moved to a different parish after 1844 and those records have been lost.
To be honest I’m not sure where to go next in trying to track Betsy down!
Stuart
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It certainly is a bit of a mystery and challenge ???
Yes did see that record for John Smith in Nairn .There doesn't seem to have been much contact with the family of Betsy Smith.You would have thought she would have been with her mother after the grandparents died . :-\
Rosie
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I was also slightly surprised there is no record of her being with her mother after her grandparents died in 1885 and 1887 particularly as her stepfather, who may have objected to her being in his household, had died in 1881.
I’m now wondering if she was just visiting her grandparents when the 1881 Census was taken i.e. she lived with another family. However I’m not sure if the enumerator would have been obliged to record her as ‘visitor’ in addition to ‘granddaughter’. Just speculation but could tie in with your thought she may have been adopted possibly closer to her birth in 1874.
Stuart
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Hi Stuart still on the look out for Betsy Smith ???
But I did find a mention of her on her Grandfather Andrew Noble's will 1901 New Zealand
www.familysearch.org
Elizabeth Smith, Isabella McBean ,and Jessie Mcbean all mentioned so she was still around just trying to find out where
Rosie
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Hi Stuart still on the look out for Betsy Smith ???
But I did find a mention of her on her Grandfather Andrew Noble's will 1901 New Zealand
www.familysearch.org
Elizabeth Smith, Isabella McBean ,and Jessie Mcbean all mentioned so she was still around just trying to find out where
Rosie
Hi Rosie
Fantastic news, thank you for being so assiduous.
I’ve no experience of familysearch but will explore with great interest - a terrific birthday present!
Stuart
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Must admit it's a hit and miss for me most times on family search just got lucky ;)
Rosie
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Hi Rosie
Thank you again, may I say you’ve made more progress in an hour or two than I had in some years!
I’ve now read the grandfather’s will and also found a photo of his headstone in Wyndham Cemetery, Southland NZ on Findagrave.
The will states that granddaughter Jessie McBean is ‘at present living in Scotland’. This ties in with the Census information you found noting also that she married Alexander Thom in Lymington in 1908.
However this wording is not applied to her full sister Isabella, whose death in 1955 is commemorated on her grandfather’s headstone in NZ. The stone also commemorates her husband Matthew Nelson.
Taking account of all this I think it reasonable to infer that Jessie had moved to NZ when the will was made, possibly with her maternal grandparents.
In a similar way there is no reference in the description of the half sister Betsy (Elizabeth) Smith to her ‘living in Scotland’, and I’m wondering if she had also moved to NZ which would explain why she seems to disappear from the records in Scotland.
Incidentally I was struck that Betsy Noble, the girls’ mother is not acknowledged anywhere in her Father’s will. I can only speculate what happened to her but suspect it wasn’t a happy story.
Stuart
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Hi Stuart
I have searched through pages of immigration records for Elizabeth Smith but so far nothing also looking for her in New Zealand ..I think that might be a possibility in Ireland as I mentioned on a previous post .I can't find immigration record for Isabella she married in New Zealand 1912 .She is on the electoral roll records at her grandfather's farm 1914 with her husband .Like you I thought it strange his daughter was not mentioned in his will
Andrew Noble was in New Zealand by 1863 and his daughter Besty was with the Macrae family .There is a few records in paperpast.natlib.gov.nz you might want to look at its free to view.Andrew Noble married Margaret Frater 1886 New Zealand ..
Rosie