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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Millmoor on Friday 05 April 24 14:31 BST (UK)
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My g g grandmother Isabella Reid died in 1859. I know her parents names from her death cert. I know from the 1851 census that she was born in Fife. Scotland's People have kindly done a rescan of this census ( believe me this is a huge improvement!) but I still have no real idea as to where in Fife she was born. Any suggestions ( even if it is just the first letter) would be most gratefully received.
William
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Not County is it :-\
Could you perhaps find it in another way by finding her parents on a census and seeing if she had any siblings in case they had the same birthplace?
What were her parents names?
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Transcription has Eeinty :-\
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Thanks for the reply. Her maiden name was Watson. Unfortunately a lot of the 1841 census for Fife is missing. I do know that her father George was in Wemyss at the time of her marriage in 1844 ( from OPR) and does appear to have been there in 1841. ( There is a Betsy recorded in this family in 1841 in Wemyss - surname incorrectly transcribed as Walson on Ancestry). Her mother was Catherine Taylor. There are OPRs for likely siblings George and William in Markinch. DNA seems to confirm a younger sister Catherine.
I did wonder about County too!
William
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In case you aren’t aware, there is a Fife place-names database here:
https://fife-placenames.glasgow.ac.uk/ (https://fife-placenames.glasgow.ac.uk/)
Unfortunately, no wild cards in the search.
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Thank you, Alan. Looks like a very useful resource.
William
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It is a great site by Glasgow University.
Wildcards are not currently supported, however, you can add letters in order that are contained in the word to search.
Monica
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Fife Cluny?
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Cluny is what Freecen has, Neale, but I am not yet convinced!
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Do you have anything to compare the first letter with, William?
I am seeing second letter as an 'e'
Third letter maybe 'n' 'm' or 'u'?
Second last letter is certainly a 't' and compares well with other 't's on the page.
Last letter possibly a 'y'. Any other examples on the page?
Monica
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Hi Monica
I did wonder if the first letter was a 'c'. The writer does that letter elsewhere on the page like the capital C in stone cutter. There is nothing quite the same as that first letter on the page! ( If the original had not been so poor I would have forked out on the next sheet for greater comparison!).
William
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Could it be Ceres?
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I did wonder if the first letter was a 'c'. The writer does that letter elsewhere on the page like the capital C in stone cutter.
See what you mean. The 'e' I was seeing is the curly end of the 'C'. So, we have potentially Cuxtx?
How about Cults? www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/Cults
See also www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-fife.htm A couple of parishes away from Markinch and Wemyss.
Monica
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Thanks, Monica. I would secretly like it to be the suggestion made by Isabel , namely Ceres! This is because a number of Watson's from the Fife coalfield converted to Mormonism in the mid 1800's . My greatest number of DNA matches link to those who made the journey to Utah many of them linking to 2 Watson brothers, Thomas and James born in Ceres in 1816 and 1820 who made that trek. I also have lots of matches through Catherine Watson who went to Utah and I think was a younger sister of my Isabella. Its a fascinating story to research but frustratingly there is an absence of enough OPR's to flesh out the precise connection.
William
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Frustrating!
Were you hoping it was the Isabel showing as born in Ceres in 1818? But her father is showing as Thomas, if I am looking at the same one.
How have you been able to connect Catherine as a younger sister to Isabella?
Monica
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It could well start with C - compare the capital C in Stone Cutter on the previous line.
It has a t towards the end as there is the long thin crossing of a t like you have in Bathgate above.
Presuming it is the name of a parish, could it be Cuits? Is Cuits a local pronunciation of the parish of Cults?
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Monica, it was actually a connection which for many years I took with a pinch of salt. As I said earlier Isabella's parents are George Watson and Catherine Taylor from her death cert. There are loads of Ancestry trees generated in America with Catherine marrying James Kippen in Utah in 1858 and which have her parents as George Watson and Catherine Taylor . There are shipping records and wagon train records describing the journey to Utah. My DNA results came back with lots of matches to Catherine Watson / Kippen and while, as with a lot of our research not totally proven, it convinced me that it was worth investigating!
William
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Thank you for your reply, GR 2. Cults is an interesting suggestion. The possible OPR marriage of George Watson and Catherine Watson is in Dairsie/ Leuchars and Cults is adjacent to Ceres.
William
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Just been having a look at some of the info regarding Catherine Watson or Kippen. See what you mean about likely connection between her and your Isabella.
I wonder if the connection could start with Thomas Watson (father of Thomas and James) and George Watson (father to Isabella and Catherine)? Could they be brothers? Maybe this is why you are getting hits on your DNA?
Monica
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Have you seen her death registration? From it, mother's name not known but father is showing as George Watson. Son Joseph reported her death.
I see that on this registration her birth date is given as 7 Sept 1836. I had seen 1838 quoted in other notes.
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Thanks for your continued interest, Monica. I think I probably have all the available records for her. As is often the case it is a question of trying to join up all the dots! Her age is one of the question marks I do have . The family group I have for her in 1841 in Wemyss has her age 6. The story that a lot of the American trees have is that father George ( and wife Catherine ) died of cholera in New Orleans. I do have a shipping record for the ship Olympus( and an LDS manifest) showing that George and daughter Catherine travelled to New Orleans in 1851- no sign of mother Catherine but there is a mortcloth record in Wemyss in 1849 for the wife of George Watson which could be her. These shipping records do show young Catherine again as slightly older at 16 years of age. ( The route often taken at that time was to travel by ship to New Orleans, then go up the Mississippi before embarking on the wagon trail over the Plains.). It is actually a very interesting search to do!
Your suggestion re Thomas and George Watson being brothers is a hypothesis that I have long considered but again there are insufficient records to "prove" it! After GR2's suggestion of Cults being Isabella's place of birth I decided to look for kirk session records for that parish to discover that none exist!
William