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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: janjim on Sunday 07 April 24 05:48 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find any information on William Donnelly b. 1841 in Sydney or Balmain. His parents Simon and Eliza Donnelly had arrived from Hog Island, County Clare, Ireland the previous year on board the "Premier". Simon Donnelly was a Sailmaker at Balmain Sydney, he came to Australia registered as a Farm Labourer arriving with two children, Mary Donnelly b. 1937 and Joseph (legendary Boat Builder at Balmain) b. 1839. They had several other children after their arrival, first child William whom we believe was also a Boat Builder at Balmain. Cannot find any records of his death, there is one marriage to Henrietta Cummings, but we do not believe this is the correct William Donnelly, he is from another family.
There is much history on Joseph Donnelly his older brother who was a famous Boat Builder.
If anyone can assist with our William Donnelly, would really appreciate their help.
Best regards
Jan
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Find-a-Grave has this burial, but I can't see it on the NSW BMD index so can't verify any other details to see if this is the correct person.
William Donnelly
BIRTH 1841
DEATH 1 Jun 1869 (aged 27–28)
BURIAL
Gladesville Asylum Cemetery, Gladesville, Hunter's Hill Municipality, New South Wales, Australia
PLOT 335
MEMORIAL ID 191590699 · View Source
Quite a lot about the hospital and its cemetery is available on Google, but couldn't see anything specific about William although many of these burials were, apparently, in unmarked graves.
Judith
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Find-a-Grave has this burial, but I can't see it on the NSW BMD index so can't verify any other details to see if this is the correct person.
William Donnelly
BIRTH 1841
DEATH 1 Jun 1869 (aged 27–28)
BURIAL
Gladesville Asylum Cemetery, Gladesville, Hunter's Hill Municipality, New South Wales, Australia
PLOT 335
MEMORIAL ID 191590699 · View Source
Judith
William DONELLY age 28yrs
Died: RYDE
District: RYDE
Reg: 5942/1869
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/deaths
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Well found Merlin - I actually put that name in and then, before pressing, corrected it to the other spelling - should have just pressed 'Search"!
Unfortunately no parent names which isn't unusual with a death in an institution, so still no confirmation that this is the correct person.
Judith
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Thanks Judith, I saw that death on Ancestry, but just wasn't sure if this was our William.
Wonder if there are any records elsewhere we can check the name of parents.
Jan
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Not sure if related?
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2942209
Details
Number INX-106-98605
Title: Donnelly William
Index Name: Index to Colonial Secretary Letters Received
Description: Asylum
Name: William
Surname: Donnelly
Index Number: 106
ECommerce: Category G
Start Date: 01/01/1866
End Date: 31/12/1866
Citation: [4/575] Letter no 66/2815
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The death certificates for Timothy DONNELLY and wife Eliza, when and where did they die and - how are their children accounted for eg alive, deceased?
Can you confirm please...the missing William is son of Timothy DONNELLY and Eliza SCALES?
The children born in Sydney have parents Timothy DONNELLY ......and Eliza SCALES, and Timothy is son of Simon?
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SMH 7 June 1866 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13132363
Also https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166660496
William Donnelly, 32, boat builder, was taken into custody under warrant on the information of Timothy Donnelly, his father, on the ground that he was suffering from derangement of mind, and likely to commit some offence for which he would be liable to be indicted. The father, who is a sailmaker, residing Duke-street Balmain, stated in evidence that prisoner returned from California about six months ago, and, being in bad health, he was sent to the hospital. Being discharged from that institution he came home, but being very strange in his conduct, repeating numbers for a long time, suddenly calling out "fire," making grimaces, and throwing his arms about in a wild manner, it was feared that he might do himself some harm. He one day ran into the fire, and seemed to have no idea of what he was doing. Another son, about 17 years of age, is now an inmate of Tarban Creek Asylum. Prisoner was sometimes tied down in bed. Two legally qualified medical practitioners, Dr Egan and Dr Shaw, had examined prisoner, certified to the unsoundness of his mind, and recommended that he be sent to a lunatic asylum. He was committed to Darlinghurst gaol until discharged in due course of law.
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What a sad and distressing story to be reported publicly in the newspaper, with the additional mention of the brother.
So it seems likely that the 1869 death is the correct one, although the father’s name doesn’t match that given by the OP.
Judith
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Hi Janjim,
Your other thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=881756.0
is giving some information from you which differs from this opening post.
It says that Simon DONELLY married Winifred at Hog Island .
Their son Timothy m. Eliza SCALES Hog Island.
Their children were Mary and Joseph.
Timothy, Eliza and 2 children came to NSW in 1840. More children were born here.
I wonder if there is a confusion of names in your information
Sue
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Here is the death of Timothy who arrived in NSW in 1840
DONNELLY Timothy
Father Simon
Mother Winifred
At SYDNEY
1876/335
Sue
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Here is the death of Timothy who arrived in NSW in 1840
DONNELLY Timothy
Father Simon
Mother Winifred
At SYDNEY
1876/335
Sue
Two death notices
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13363574?searchTerm=%22donnelly%22
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I see no mention of the forename "Simon" in any of the records - the couple coming to Australia appear to be Timothy and Eliza, although his name in the handwritten immigration record could be mistaken as Simon.
They are shown in the
New South Wales, Australia, Assisted Immigrant Passenger Lists,
July, 1840
per ship Premier
All from County Clare
Timothy Donnelly, 30, farm labourer, protestant, cannot read or write, from County Clare
Eliza Donnelly, 26, housekeeper, protestant, reads
Joseph, 1 1/4
Mary, 3
Eliza's funeral notices in The Daily Telegraph (Sydney, NSW), Fri 12 Jan 1900
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/237155253
Judith
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Hi Have a look at the Rookwood Cemetery search
https://rookwoodcemetery.discovereverafter.com/profile/26428952
Eliza is buried with Joseph who died December 1917. a number of articles in Trove regarding Joseph's death
this is one link
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/167285219?searchTerm=joseph%20donnelly
Cass
PS
just found a lovelly photo of Joe
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/263732952?searchTerm=donnelly%20boat%20builder
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Oh my goodness, how sad, thank you all for this information. Also I do apologise for not answering sooner, for some reason or other these messages before did not pop up on my email messages. Very strange. I will look further into this now. Jan
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Hi Judith,
My apologies, yes a mistake in my opening post, that should have been Timothy Donnelly, not Simon. Timothy Donnelly's father was Simon Donnelly.
Jan
What a sad and distressing story to be reported publicly in the newspaper, with the additional mention of the brother.
So it seems likely that the 1869 death is the correct one, although the father’s name doesn’t match that given by the OP.
Judith
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wivenhoe,
So Sorry I made a mistake re the posting, should have been Timothy Donnelly, not Simon Donnelly.
Also we do have death certificate for Timothy Donnelly when he died in 1876. Registered are two sons dead and two daughters as well. They were William Donnelly, George Donnelly d. 1868, Lucy d. 1856 aged 4 years and Louisa Donnelly. We cannot find a death for Louisa Donnelly.
Would really appreciate it if anyone could find more information on the deaths of Lucy and Louisa Donnelly.
Jan
The death certificates for Timothy DONNELLY and wife Eliza, when and where did they die and - how are their children accounted for eg alive, deceased?
Can you confirm please...the missing William is son of Timothy DONNELLY and Eliza SCALES?
The children born in Sydney have parents Timothy DONNELLY ......and Eliza SCALES, and Timothy is son of Simon?
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I'm sure you have read the death notices which I linked for you in my reply#11, following relpy #10 clarifing names and dates.
The only living offspring mentioned is Joseph. Does this agree with the information on the 1876 DC which you have?
Sue
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Sue,
In 1876, the following offspring, Joe Donnelly b. 1839, Jane b. 1843, Frances b. 1850 and Sarah b. 1861 were all living at the time of Timothy Donnelly's death. Unusual only to have Joe's name on death notices. Jane b. 1843 married Edwards and moved to NZ initially, Frances b. 1850 m. Crome and Sarah b. 1861 m. Tiffin.
Jan
I'm sure you have read the death notices which I linked for you in my reply#11, following relpy #10 clarifing names and dates.
The only living offspring mentioned is Joseph. Does this agree with the information on the 1876 DC which you have?
Sue
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Interesting.
I think there had been disharmony in the marriage of Timothy and Eliza.
Perhaps the other offspring were not particularly fond of father.
1867
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13221263
1869
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13193981
1870
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13221263
Sue
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When daughter Lucy died in 1856, she was aged 14 months. according to this death notice. The youngest daughter (Reg 1107/1856)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12985633
However this birth would give a death age of closer to 5 years. ???
DONNELLY Lucy
964/1851 V1851964 37A
Parents TIMOTHY & ELIZA
NF
Sue
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Okay, so now I think the newspaper information is incorrect, wrong name, should have been Louisa who was born 1855 and the death in 1856 would match up.
So need to go back to Lucy now b. 1851, more sleuthing.
Jan
When daughter Lucy died in 1856, she was aged 14 months. according to this death notice. The youngest daughter (Reg 1107/1856)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12985633
However this birth would give a death age of closer to 5 years. ???
DONNELLY Lucy
964/1851 V1851964 37A
Parents TIMOTHY & ELIZA
NF
Sue
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Death
DONELLY Lucy
19/1851 V185119 37B
INFANT
At NU
NU == Church of England Willoughby
Sue
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Sue,
Thank you, that solves Lucy now. Obviously a misprint in the SMH.
Now to get more information on George Donnelly, he died at Duke Street, Balmain aged 23 years, but haven't found any newspaper records yet.
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Now to get more information on George Donnelly, he died at Duke Street, Balmain aged 23 years, but haven't found any newspaper records yet.
George DONELLY d. 25 Dec 1868 Balmain, NSW.
Parents: Timothy and Eliza
1697/1868
He was buried at Balmain Cemetery which is now the Pioneers Memorial Park.
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Merlin,
Thanks for that information, we did get that previously regarding George Donnelly, seems he was at Tarban Creek Asylum in 1866 aged 17 years. We can assume that he must have been released from there, as he died at Duke Street, Balmain, which I think was business premises.
Just wondered what happened, was there an accident, still looking through papers. Maybe someone else might come up with answers.
Jan
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I think this marriage is for a daughter of the family.
698/1859 BRISCOE George
DONNELLY Mary
SYDNEY
It looks to me as the surname BRISCOE is what is intended here in a death notice for Eliza in 1900.
Printed as BRISCOF
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14232625
It looks like T. (Timothy?) DONNELLY was selling the home of George. August 1867. Perhaps George had been admitted to the asylum or no longer living there.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13153817
Sue
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Sue, that's great you've found that info on George's house. Mary Donnelly married George Briscoe, our G Grandparents, so that all comes together.
jan
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Sue, that's great you've found that info on George's house. Mary Donnelly married George Briscoe, our G Grandparents, so that all comes together.
jan
Sue,
In 1876, the following offspring, Joe Donnelly b. 1839, Jane b. 1843, Frances b. 1850 and Sarah b. 1861 were all living at the time of Timothy Donnelly's death. Unusual only to have Joe's name on death notices. Jane b. 1843 married Edwards and moved to NZ initially, Frances b. 1850 m. Crome and Sarah b. 1861 m. Tiffin.
Why is Mary not listed in 1876? :(
Sue
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Mary was born in 1837 at Hog Island. She is my husband's Great Grandmother.
I'm sorry I forgot to mention that she was also alive at the time of Timothy's death.
The Briscoe family were also well known on the Sydney Waterfront.
Jan
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OK ;D
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Sue,
I did find where Timothy had freehold land around 1853 at Balmain and now that we see he is selling in 1867, confirms that this was Timothy's home at 7 Duke Street, Balmain.
He had marriage problems at the time, and maybe forced to sell the same.
Jan
I think this marriage is for a daughter of the family.
698/1859 BRISCOE George
DONNELLY Mary
SYDNEY
It looks to me as the surname BRISCOE is what is intended here in a death notice for Eliza in 1900.
Printed as BRISCOF
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14232625
It looks like T. (Timothy?) DONNELLY was selling the home of George. August 1867. Perhaps George had been admitted to the asylum or no longer living there.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13153817
Sue
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Thank you everyone for your input, I am struggling though in finding any information on William Donnelly having travelled to California in the United States, as he returned home ill in 1866 and admitted to Gladesville Hospital.
Also cannot find any shipping records for his sister Jane Donnelly b. 1843 Balmain, who also moved to New Zealand and married Captain Alexander Edmund Edwards over in Wellington NZ in 1877.
Jan
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It is a little unusual that a single woman in her early 30's, pre 1877 would go to New Zealand unaccompanied and/or without clear purpose.
Some guaranteed income would be needed.
The travelling expense in itself, would be out of the reach of most women.
Scenarios might be-
Work of a specialised type (charity, nursing, educaton)
Marriage to someone living there as a definite and pre-arranged undertaking.
To live with and possibly assist a relative living there eg sister.
Rejection by her family for some reason
Sue
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Sue it could have been for many reasons, there was obviously some big problems within the family, with two sons having time at the Gladesville Mental Hospital, her parents having split up, all very sad.
One of the sons went to California, United States, still don't know what that was all about, and came home to a mental facility.
I imagine that Jane met Alexander on the Sydney waterfront somewhere and the marriage was possibly pre-arranged.
Jan
Jan
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This is a VERY long shot and I can't see how it could be proved that this is the correct person.
New South Wales, Australia, Unassisted Immigrant Passenger Lists
Arrival, Sydney 9 July, 1866
Ship Ellen Southard
The list shown are all crew, with the position held by each person next to their name and among them is:
William Donnelly, 22, OS, Nationality given as Great Britain (OS = Rank of Ordinary Seaman which implies that he had had little or no previous experience as a sailor)
Ship came from Tome which is in Chile, while newspaper reports say it left Talcahuano, Chile which is about 30k away from Tome, having left Chile on 28 March. The ship appears to have been carrying wheat and flour.
There are a number of mentions in Trove but all with similar information although one mention suggests that it is an American ship
From the Sydney Mail, Sat 21 Jul 1866
ELLEN SOUTHARD, American ship, 828 tons, Howe, at Walker's Wharf, agents: Wilkinson Brothers, and Co.
Wikipedia says: Ellen Southard plied international trade routes from her homeport in Bath, Maine, with visits documented in ports as far away as Sydney, Australia.
Trove has the Ellen Southard in Sydney in 1865 and she leaves Sydney at about the end of June 1865 bound for New Caledonia. I don't know where she went between bein in New Caledonia and Chile - maybe back to the US?
So perhaps this is William??????
Judith
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Hi again,
Yes this could be the answer, thanks so much for all of that. Judith.
Jan
This is a VERY long shot and I can't see how it could be proved that this is the correct person.
New South Wales, Australia, Unassisted Immigrant Passenger Lists
Arrival, Sydney 9 July, 1866
Ship Ellen Southard
The list shown are all crew, with the position held by each person next to their name and among them is:
William Donnelly, 22, OS, Nationality given as Great Britain (OS = Rank of Ordinary Seaman which implies that he had had little or no previous experience as a sailor)
Ship came from Tome which is in Chile, while newspaper reports say it left Talcahuano, Chile which is about 30k away from Tome, having left Chile on 28 March. The ship appears to have been carrying wheat and flour.
There are a number of mentions in Trove but all with similar information although one mention suggests that it is an American ship
From the Sydney Mail, Sat 21 Jul 1866
ELLEN SOUTHARD, American ship, 828 tons, Howe, at Walker's Wharf, agents: Wilkinson Brothers, and Co.
Wikipedia says: Ellen Southard plied international trade routes from her homeport in Bath, Maine, with visits documented in ports as far away as Sydney, Australia.
Trove has the Ellen Southard in Sydney in 1865 and she leaves Sydney at about the end of June 1865 bound for New Caledonia. I don't know where she went between bein in New Caledonia and Chile - maybe back to the US?
So perhaps this is William??????
Judith