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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Talacharn on Monday 15 April 24 12:11 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information relating to Agnes Williams.
Her parents were Samson Williams (Scamp) and Gravalina Lee.
1881: Census . Gipsy Tent Penyard . Dyffrynclydach, Glamorganshire
Agnes Williams . Daughter . F . 15 . Caerffili, Glamorganshire
Agnes Williams . mmn Lee
Jan-Mar 1867 . Pontypridd . Volume 11a . Page 295
Does anyone know who she married/partnered?
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Is she the Agnes servant age 22 in Llangynog 1891 - if so she was still single then so I would look for a marriage between then and 1901 to start with.
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Thanks, that is her. I have seen that record, but it was some time ago, and then I forgot. Using Family Search I am offered some strange results as back then women did not marry women. I looked through FreeBMD and found nothing.
Having been told Agnes Williams married a Samuel Evans, it is only oral history and links to someone living. I would like to find proof. Looking through marriages and census records, I cannot find any evidence they existed as a couple.
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ancestry links her to David Boswell a travelling showman and having 14 children by 1911 but birthplace isn't the same as yours so not sure.
This one has Milford Haven Pembrokeshire.
There are plenty of Agnes Williams marriages on Free BMD between 1891-1901.
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Nope that one doesn't look right, one of the daughters was Rhoda and she has mothers maiden name Evans.
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Thanks Milliepede, That is the issue. The recent oral history received said Agnes Williams married an Evans, possibly Samuel Evans from the Caergwrle area of North Wales. I have found members of the Evans family born in Caergwrle, Hope and Wrexham, but no marriage.
Someone I am helping with this research, assumed Agnes Williams married David Boswell as both were from traveller families. I showed it was not the marriage, as the children led to Agnes Evans from Pembrokeshire.
There is an interesting burial in Buckley; Agnes Evans . 48 (Est: 1868) . Page 90
23 Dec 1916 . Buckley, Flintshire. There are two churches with the same vicar, so I sent an email to see where she is buried, and if she is buried with anyone. This afternoon I received a response, but the vicar listed online, is no longer at Buckley, so I have sent another to the right person.
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I wonder if this is Agnes in 1911, having lost a few years and born in Chester.
1911 Census: Hope, Flintshire
Samuel Evans . 35 (1876) . Head . Married (4) . Coal Miner . Buckley Hints
Anness Evans . 30 (1881) . Wife . Married . Filler Underground . Chester
RG14 . Piece/Folio 185 . Schedule 93 . Page 6
(Travellers did change/amend their names and vague about ages)
But, there is Anness Evans b.1880 in Chester on the 1821 Census and living in Hope. Also living in Hope in 1921 is Samuel Evans born 1875, Buckley, though they might not be living together.
At present, I cannot find Agnes as Williams or Evans on the 1901 Census, and the only fact is an Agnes Evans was buried in Buckley in 1916.
There Is a burial for a Samuel Evans, also in Buckley aged 54 (est: 1862). 10 May 1916
Again there might not be a link. I have sent an email to Flintshire County Council asking about the grave of Agnes Evans.
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A few members have heped on the Flintshire page. Agnes Evans who died in 1916 is not the right person.
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I am looking for information relating to Agnes Williams.
Her parents were Samson Williams (Scamp) and Gravalina Lee.
1881: Census . Gipsy Tent Penyard . Dyffrynclydach, Glamorganshire
Agnes Williams . Daughter . F . 15 . Caerffili, Glamorganshire
Agnes Williams . mmn Lee
Jan-Mar 1867 . Pontypridd . Volume 11a . Page 295
Does anyone know who she married/partnered?
Agnes Williams
Father Samson
Mother Gravelinia
Baptism 13 Apr 1868
Age 13 months
Place Tre-Lech A'r Betws
Carmarthenshire
Baptised the same day and place are
Oliver Williams age 3
Thomas Williams
Parents were Elijah and Agnes Williams.
Their 'abode' was the same as Samson & Gravelinia and Elijah was also a Basket Maker
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Thanks rosie99, I will look into them as they are new names. The oral recorded tree held at the University of Liverpool lists the Scamp family, but does not have an Elijah, though I have shown in other areas it is not complete. With travellers, birth, registration and baptism may be miles apart. From a quick search, I think the mmn is Lock and a traveller name, possibly derived from Boswell. In Wales the Scamps used Williams and on times so did the Boswell tribe. I could not find a marriage, which is not a surprise.
Having been offered new oral history, that links to the Scamp, Boswell and Lee families. I am trying to accept or reject the information. At present I have corrected and accepted some and rejected nothing. There is no marriage to a Samuel Evans and the later census records are not certain. Some records to other facts have been found, with a missing link, that being Agnes Williams (Scamp).
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In case you don't already have..seems the connection you mention is Lock.
Quite a few hints for family in USA 1880 ish, no access to check, just have UK
Possible - 1861- Aberdare, Glamorgan
Piece 4065, Folio 27, Page number 48
Elijah William 23 Head, basket maker, Pontyprydd Glam
Agnes William 23 Wife Bridgenorth, Shropshire
Elijah William 2 Son Aberdare - (1858 Merthyr registration gives mmn Lock)
Elizabeth William 1mth Daughter, Aberdare
Elizabeth Lock 64 Alverstone, Gloucestershire Lodger
Byrim Lock 12 Grandson Maesteg Glam
Possible baptism for Agnes Lock. Quatt Malvern is south of Bridgenorth
Name Agnes Locke
Baptism Date 24 May 1835
Baptism Place Quatt, Shropshire, England
Religion Anglican
Father Matthew Locke
Mother Elizabeth Locke
Page number 37
Reference Number P226/A/2/1
Cas
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Thanks Cas, I had not found that census record. Having said Elijah is not on the oral list held by Liverpool University, I found his baptism and he is a Scamp as his parents are listed, so he is the uncle of Samson Williams (Scamp).
I am aware of the Lock/Locke project in America, but these are the first I have come across. For Byrim/Abraham there is a Locke registered but without a Christian name or mmn. With Elizabeth there are too many options. I will look for baptisms.
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There is this possible. Tree on Anc has the parents moving USA.
Name Biram Young Lock
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Baptism
Birth Date 5 Aug 1847
Baptism Date 10 Aug 1847
Baptism Place Llangynwyd, Glamorganshire, Wales
Father Stephen Lock - basket maker & gypsy
Mother Ann Lock
Birth?
LOCK, BINAM YOUNG mmn WOODS
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in BRIDGEND AND COWBRIDGE Volume 26 Page 338
Also a possible seaman's record ?
Name Byram Locke
Birth Date 27 Jul 1849
Birth Place Twinney, Glamorghanshire
Service Number 29463A
URL http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7917888
Cas
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Elijah’s brother Tom emigrated to America, and I suspected others did as well.
That is one complex traveller family as Lock, Young and Wood are all traveller names.
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Regarding an earlier question about Samuel and Anness Evans in the 1911 census, I have now found it is not Agnes. Samuel Evans married Anness J Moss in Chester Jul-Sep 1910. The burial of Agnes Evans in 1916 is not the right person. It leaves the original question about Samuel Evans and Agnes Williams in the Caergwrle area still unanswered. With no marriage, or mention on the later censuses, I am now doubting the oral history. Until I receive more information, I need to place this thread on the back-burner. Thanks to all who helped, as I now have other areas of the same family to research.