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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: SooCatt on Thursday 15 September 05 11:20 BST (UK)
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Ellen Rymer Handley was born 18 May 1898, place of birth is given as London Custom House, West Ham.
Can anyone tell me anything about this please? Is it an area or an actual house?
Word of mouth in the family said she was born in Canning Town, is this in the same vicinity?
Be glad to get any info. It all adds leaves to the tree......
Thanks
Susan
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Hi susan
custom house is at canning town.canning town comes under the borough of west ham.the last i knew of it it was a seamans retirement home for the less fortunate.
It is very big and at one time could have been a work house i suspect
regards
alan
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Thanks for that Alan.
I've tried looking for info on the net but just keep getting hotel sites. I'll try for Canning Town and West Ham and see what comes up.
Thanks again
Susan
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I am interested in knowing about Custom House.
My Grandmother and her three sisters were born there.
I don't think it was a workhouse.
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I'm also interested in Custom House as I have relatives living there in 1901 so I'd be interested to find out more.
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Custom House is an area of London by the Victoria Dock. Here is a description from the web-site at http://www.lalamy.demon.co.uk/plaistow.htm
"Custom House (part of West Ham)
South-eastern part of Canning Town, an area with a name connected to the Royal Docks which themselves date back to the 1850's when their construction began, firstly on the huge Victoria Dock, (the last - the Albert Dock - opened as late as 1921). As was necessary to house the workforce for the docks, Custom House contains a large amount of domestic working class housing. It was also the home of West Ham Stadium (note: NOT the home of West Ham United, but home to a speedway/dog racing track) which had a capacity for over 100,000 people - demolished in the 1970s."
You can see it on a modern map if you enter 'Custom House' as a GB Place in http://www.streetmap.co.uk/
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Hello,
To my knowledge Custom House was both a parish district and a building in the Canning Town area of London, sometimes referred to also as a part of West Ham.
As it is situated just north of the Royal Victoria Docks (some of the most significant docks in London) most of the activity revolved around the maritime trades. The area got its name from the Custom House (building) which was a focal point of the area and I believe incorporated functions of martime customs administration as well as early dock workers unions.
The area still exists but was heavily bombed during WW2 and redeveloped. There is still a building "Custom House" but I'm not sure whether it is the original Victorian Building.
Hope that helps.
Jonathan
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Thanks for the information guys.
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Thanks guys, very interesting reading. :) :)
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Thanks everyone and especially Hughar - that's an interesting web site.
Susan ;)
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the only reply that is any where near right is hagar, i was born in cust om house, it is an area north of the royal group of docks now closed, south of the beckton road to the right is canning town to the left is beckton, the city airpord was built in between the royal abert and king george the 5th dock, if i can help anymore contact me,BARRY. P.S. UP TILL THE 1950S IT CAME UNDER ESSEX BUT HAD A LONDON POST CODE E16, WE HAVE ALWAY THOUGHT OF OURSELFS AS LONDONERS
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Thanks for that Barry.
I wonder how familiar you are with the history of the area? I would appreciate your ideas as to what would have brought my husband's GG Grandparents down from West Yorkshire for a relatively short period of time at the turn of last century.
They were from mining stock and their first three children were born in West Yorks, in the late 1800's - the next three were born in Custom House at the turn of the century and sometime in the next 15 years the whole family moved back to West Yorks.
There doesn't appear to have been any family connections with the area so I'm assuming ti is work of some sort that took them there. It seems a leap from mining to the docks though.
As I say I'd appreciate any ideas.
Susan
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Susan,
The 1901 census shows William Handley as a Stoker (although what was written first is crossed out and not clear). Maybe he had to come out of the mines, and took the stokers' job as it was closest to what he was used to doing - shovelling coal?
Barry mentioned Beckton, which was the site of one of the country's largest gas works. And there were others in the area. They would have needed lots of stokers.
You may find this site useful http://www.portcities.org.uk/london/server/show/ConNarrative.65/chapterId/1553/Powering-the-City.html
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thats prob, it .susan, but they also had stokers on ships in those days, and the royal docks was close by and many seamen lived in custom house, barry
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Canning Town and Custom house , Beckton have all changed so much since I was a kid growing up around there. It has all undergone new developments. I still have family living in the area, but each time I go to visit it seems it has changed a bit more!
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G'day to everyone here,
(where to start)...ok, my name's Debbie (Deb), and for as long as I can remember I've been fascinated in the process of tracing one's family tree, and with some help, have managed to trace mine as far back as 1816 to when my great grandmother (x5) was born-Jane Green
BothJ ane and my great grandfather, John Melvey, met and married soon after arriving as convicts here in Australia. Jane arrived 1834 and John in 1830.
Have gone really well with everything going forward, but my search has taken me back to the Old Bailey and Jane's sentencing...it was here that I had hoped to trace her whereabouts leading up to her arrest, and according to the details of the court, she had been living somewhere in a place called Mill Yard.
The defendant,(Henry Godwin) lists his address as no 4, Coberg-terrace, Bow-road, and says he is(was) a waiter in the Custom-house. He goes on to say he was approached by a female (Jane) at the top of Wells Street......I have googled these details to death, and somehow landed here on this forum.....the document also described the house Jane had been staying at as "in a nook next to a chapel"......and having researched, realise that this area is probably teeming with chapels!
Am hoping against hope that someone here might be able to give me a new lead, even possibly some street names or areas where I could continue my search.
Thanks for reading ;)
Deb Stevens
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Hi Deb The area you are trying to explore in London is not easy,in those days it was a rabbit warren of small streets and yards, the gentleman who got robbed lived at Coburg Terrace Poplar in the parish of St Marys,but he said he was dinning with friends and was on his way home,the Mill Yard mentioned is likely to be the one off Cable Street,which is probably the most notorious street in the East End of London,the man would have been about 3/4 of a mile from his home,to reinforce that the policeman was from H division the famous Ripper division based at Whitechapel which covered the are area where you ancestor was arrested,just where you start looking for the family back from Jane will be difficult,I would try Ancestry,they have the London Parish records online,at least you have a rough idea of her age the target area will be any of the parish along the Thames from Wapping to St George in the East,and also Stepney ,Poplar,and Ratcliff,to name a few,one thing for sure your ancestor did herself a lot of good being transported to Australia,her life in that area of London in those days would have been short.
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G'day geno500 and thank you so MUCH!
Your information is brilliant and I am wondering if Cable Street was anywhere near to Back Church Lane??? After I left the initial post here, I went looking again, and THINK I am getting closer....when you said the Whitechapel area (Ripper) I had goosebumps all over!! hahaha
Jane was born in Ireland(Dublin) but the most I was able to learn of her days prior to arriving in England are next to nothing. I did, however locate her baptism details (if in fact it is my Jane Green) and if correct, her mother's name was Mary. Not a great deal there, and so my search continues....meanwhile, am sticking to her last known whereabouts being what appears to be the 'seedy end of town', and who knows where or why she was even here to begin with? This is a challenge I have set for myself, not giving up until I get the answers! Anyhow, again, a huge "thank you" for not only bothering to respond, but for supplying further details of that period...should you have any other tips please feel free to drop them here or my email...cheers!
Hi Deb The area you are trying to explore in London is not easy,in those days it was a rabbit warren of small streets and yards, the gentleman who got robbed lived at Coburg Terrace Poplar in the parish of St Marys,but he said he was dinning with friends and was on his way home,the Mill Yard mentioned is likely to be the one off Cable Street,which is probably the most notorious street in the East End of London,the man would have been about 3/4 of a mile from his home,to reinforce that the policeman was from H division the famous Ripper division based at Whitechapel which covered the are area where you ancestor was arrested,just where you start looking for the family back from Jane will be difficult,I would try Ancestry,they have the London Parish records online,at least you have a rough idea of her age the target area will be any of the parish along the Thames from Wapping to St George in the East,and also Stepney ,Poplar,and Ratcliff,to name a few,one thing for sure your ancestor did herself a lot of good being transported to Australia,her life in that area of London in those days would have been short.
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Hi Deb, Well there are a number of answers to your question of was Mill Yard off Cable Street,near Back Church Lane,this was a very common name in this area of London,as there were a lot of churches in the area,not that the population would have been church goers unless it was a baptism ,marriage or death,but the churches were built depending on the number of people and this area had a high population and they all had lanes at the back of them,but here are the ones that are recorded,there are 5 ,they are Aldgate/Spitalfields,Commercial Road East Whitechapel,St John the Evangelist St George in the East, St Mark Whitechapel, and St Matthew St George in the East,my two favorites would be St John and St Matthew ,the census may help to find it,as long as you have a map of the area at the time ,there are a couple online that can help,look at the census and see where the enumerator was and just keep turning the pages of the census and see which way he is going,it is a long shot because the police did not venture far from the main roads in this area,so the enumerator missed lots of dodgy lanes and closes :D
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Hi Debs with nothing to do this morning,I decided to have a look for you,at the time your ancestor was arrested,Cable Street was not as long as it became later.the road was a long one but at that time Cable street only made up a small bit of it at the Aldgate End,that is the city end,the road then changed to Back Road and then it became Sun Tavern road and then Brook St,,all these became Cable street later,so Back Road was the same road a Cable Street and just below Back Road was St Georges Church,the map you need is John Snows interactive map of London 1859 it is free,best of luck. ;D
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Hey Gen....again your help is beyond awesome, and I just wanted to ask if you could be more precise with the census info ie: London census?...have grabbed a couple of maps, not sure they are the right ones but believe this hunt for Jane is narrowing!! Here's a link to one, would you mind looking at it (when you have more time that is) just to see if I'm on the right track? http://www.stgite.org.uk/library/stjohns1878map.jpg
http://www.stgite.org.uk/media/stjohnsparish.html
Also, with the area of St Mathew's church in St George, was that situated on Pell Street?
Hope I'm not bombarding you with work!!
Anyway, good to know I'm in the right area and possibly once I start looking through the census will have more to go on :) Thanks again!
Deb ;)
Hi Debs with nothing to do this morning,I decided to have a look for you,at the time your ancestor was arrested,Cable Street was not as long as it became later.the road was a long one but at that time Cable street only made up a small bit of it at the Aldgate End,that is the city end,the road then changed to Back Road and then it became Sun Tavern road and then Brook St,,all these became Cable street later,so Back Road was the same road a Cable Street and just below Back Road was St Georges Church,the map you need is John Snows interactive map of London 1859 it is free,best of luck. ;D
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Hi Debs neither of those two maps are any good they do not go down far enough,but you are in the right area,try and find Dr John Snows interactive map of London 1859,he was a doctor who mapped the Cholera outbreaks from 1818 to 1860's this map does not show the outbreaks it is a great map because you can move it around,I looked at your postings again,and I missed what the man said at the trial,he said I came to Well Street just as I came Cable street,well on that map Well Street is marked and half way down is a chapel marked with a cross ,it is not a church because St Georges is only two streets away.I am never very good at giving web sites to look at but this should show you the tiny bit of map that has what you want if it does not work just use the front bit and look at the whole map www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1859map/map/1859_1_25.html
Best Regards.
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Thanks for the link, went and had another look but having trouble identifying the streets...is this what you were talking about or am I looking at another wrong map? hahaha
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1859map/map1859_g-l_25-30.html
Hi Debs neither of those two maps are any good they do not go down far enough,but you are in the right area,try and find Dr John Snows interactive map of London 1859,he was a doctor who mapped the Cholera outbreaks from 1818 to 1860's this map does not show the outbreaks it is a great map because you can move it around,I looked at your postings again,and I missed what the man said at the trial,he said I came to Well Street just as I came Cable street,well on that map Well Street is marked and half way down is a chapel marked with a cross ,it is not a church because St Georges is only two streets away.I am never very good at giving web sites to look at but this should show you the tiny bit of map that has what you want if it does not work just use the front bit and look at the whole map www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1859map/map/1859_1_25.html
Best Regards.
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Hi Deb yes that is the map if you look at the bottom you will see cable street click on that the map it is interactive,so you will get only that bit of map,I would also add there is a 1846 map and a 1827 map that one shows that the area still ahd open space and produce being grown but by 1846 most of that had gone also Back Street in the 1859 map was called Back Lane on the older maps
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Hi Deb yes that is the map if you look at the bottom you will see cable street click on that the map it is interactive,so you will get only that bit of map,I would also add there is a 1846 map and a 1827 map that one shows that the area still ahd open space and produce being grown but by 1846 most of that had gone also Back Street in the 1859 map was called Back Lane on the older maps
Yep, got it, great!!
Now all I need to do is find out the "why's" and "what" to her being there...it's like this little old mystery that HAS to be solved!! Not clear on my next steps as unless I get anything else, I'm kind of trapped in the east end of London... ;) Who knows where this is all leading but I'm loving it lol
Thanks for your brilliant input!!
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Hi, :) I have tried to download a picture of Custom House but cannot see it on this page I'm typing!!
If it does appear the building in the right-hand foreground is the actual Custom House that gives its name to the area.
The district behind is Custom House, which comes under Canning Town. Newham.
The Seaman's Mission mentioned was purpose built as a refuge and a place of respite for seamen. these were all over the world.