RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Resources & Offers => Topic started by: RootsChat on Friday 11 July 03 15:26 BST (UK)
-
The Northamptonshire Regiment
http://www.1914-1918.net/northants.htm
-
Just to let you know the above site has been down for some time, and it appears it is not to be resurrected... :(
Any questions on the Regt, Seahall or I, will I'm sure, be able to help ;D
-
I am not sure about that.
Stebie9173 and yourself are the whizzies and I have small limited knowledge. ;D ;D ;D
Credit where credit due.
Sandy
-
Ahhh....But you have all the local stuff... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Between the 3 of us, I'm sure all answers can be found! ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
It's has increased.
And of course Kay from TGWF.
That's 5 any more. ;D
Which ever way plenty to assist about Northants Soldiers,
and ones that served in other Counties and other Countries too.
-
Since putting the previous link which is for the
Northampton Independent Soldier Index
there is now a new link to the
Borough Of Northampton Roll Of Honour - World War One
it is in Pdf formats and downloadable.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05ql
If any of you whizzies know the "group numbering" let us
know as I am sure it would be of interest to others here also.
Sandy
-
Sandy,
This is what I meant about Occupational Groups:
-
Hi Phil
Just read your P.M. :)
So did I get it right. ;D
Thanks for explaining even if it was to a novice. :)
Although what you said made sense to me. I think.
Sandy
-
Sandy,
You explained it better than me. :D
Don't forget that it is only my best guess though.
Phil :)
-
Thanks Phil. :D
Must be all the transcribing I do. LOL.
Much appreciated truly.
Sandy
-
A couple more I found:
A chauffeur in Group 34
A fitter and turner in Group 26
Phil :)
-
Okay Phil.
That is looking good.
So where do we find an original army list of groups then. :D
Sandy
-
Morning Phil
I see the "Oracle" was about yet he hasn't given us his ideas ::)
Being an ex Northampton Man I thought it would have been right up his street. :D
How about calling him over for his advice.
Sandy
-
Evening Sandy,
I may (probably am ) be wrong.
They may be Derby Scheme groups, with those that don't fit (46+), being typos etc.
http://www.1914-1918.net/derbyscheme.html
Phil :)
-
I've just looked at Alan's introduction and see that it was drawn up at the beginning of 1916, which convinces me that Answer 2 is probably closer to the mark.
I wonder if there was an element of "name and shame" involved, especially as some of the names are clearly denoted as exempt, or subsequently joined up.
Phil
-
Evening Phil. :)
It seems as though you may be getting closer to the truth.
Thank you for your input.
It is much appreciated.
Sandy
-
Thanks for the link, it does look like these group numbers maybe Derby scheme groups. I have checked the two entries outside of this range of numbers to make sure that they are not typos. I've copied the images below, perhaps they were entered in error on the Roll?
Alan
-
Thank you Alan for yet another brilliant resource for Northamptonshire Folk and others.
Phil it is looking more likely your theory was correct on them being Derby Scheme Groups. ;D
Sandy
-
Hello Alan and Sandy,
You are right, the 74/77 Groups etc are not typos.
I had a quick look at the 1901 and 1911 index and can't see an Arthur Warrilow in Northants. They seem to be clustered around Stone, Staffs.
They must have some significance. It's a pity there are no qualifying remarks in the last column.
Phil
-
Hi Phil.
On my Registers of Electors for 1901 Northampton Town
there is a William Warrilow at 13 Pine St.
Sandy
-
I've just tried him as well....not there. ???
There are no Warrilows at all coming up for Northants in 1901 or 1911 in any of the searches I've tried.
What am I doing wrong ???
It does exist, does it? ;D
Phil
-
Phil ;D
The name is on my datatbase although the family is not
living a 13 Pine Street in 1901. They are not at 2 Elm Street either.
If he is on the list for Northampton Borough then he must have
been living in the Town surely.
Does he exist. ;D
Sandy
-
It appears to be the usual spelling (or transcribing) problem.
I have now found one WARRILLOW in 1911 in Northampton; probably your William (born 1864).
I've had a look on FreeBMD and there are no entries for an Arthur in the whole county from 1880 onwards, so the one on the Roll is possibly not a local.
Phil
-
Okay not sure where this is leading, yet intriguing me. :)
On freebmd there is a marriage of a William Bowden Warrilow
to a Alice Hives in Jun Qtr 1892 Northampton.
William is from Stone in Staffs.
Sandy
-
On the 1901 Census they are noted as being in
Rg13/1425 District 47 Pg 6 Folio 82 Sch 35
Hse No. 32 Althorpe Street, Northampton
William Warriloe Head M 37 Shoemkaer Staffs Stone
Alice Wife M 29 Bucks Lavendon
Albert Arthur Hives Nephew 4 London Chalk Farm
Sandy
-
Then on the 1911 census.
Rg14 ? 2 Elm Street, Northampton
William Warrillow Head Widower M 47 Shoe Maker Stone Staffs
Sarah Jane Ives Single f 49 Domestice Servant Lavendon
Bucks.
Albert Arthur Ives Nephew M 14 Errand Boy Dulwich South East
Sandy
-
Then on freebmd there is a marriage
Dec Qtr 1915 Northampton
Sarah J Hives to William Warrillow
So as Arthur Warrilow is listed at 2 Elm Street on the above Roll of Honour
he obviously took William's surname and dropped the Albert.
Moral of story nothing is as it first seems.
Sandy
-
As the entry for birth for Albert is.
On freebmd Albert Arthur Ives Jun Qtr 1887 Camberwell
I wonder what his service record/medal card if ones still exists will be under.
Sandy
-
Hello Phil & Sandy,
Thanks, I've spoken with the military expert at NRO and he also thinks that it is the Derby Scheme,
just can't fit the 74/77 groups into the Scheme.
Alan
Hello Alan and Sandy,
You are right, the 74/77 Groups etc are not typos.
I had a quick look at the 1901 and 1911 index and can't see an Arthur Warrilow in Northants. They seem to be clustered around Stone, Staffs.
They must have some significance. It's a pity there are no qualifying remarks in the last column.
Phil
-
I've spoken with the military expert at NRO
I said that there was one Phil didn't I.
Sandy
-
Hello Alan and Sandy,
Sandy, you seem to have worked out where it's leading while I've been away. ;D
I was thinking along the lines of why Arthur Warrilow was in Group 77.
That may not have been answered yet, but there's certainly a story there.
Well done Sandy. :)
Phil
-
I've found him; he went in under Albert Arthur Warrilow, Pte 325216, West Yorks.
He didn't survive. :'(
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=68246
Phil
-
Well done Phil :)
Bless him.
At least if anyone wished to trace him we have given them a head start.
Sandy
-
SDGW has a bit more, but is also confusing.
Born: St Sepulchre, Northants
Enlisted: Northampton
Killed in Action; 20/5/18; France and Flanders
Formerly 290396 Hants Cyelo Battalion. [Possibly 1/9 (Cyclist) Bn, but I can't see how it fits]
Phil
-
Hunts Cyclists Battalion is a bit closer geographically....
EDIT: They were allocated numbers 290001 to 315000 from the Bedfordshire REgiment series during the 1917 renumbering exercise.
Steve.
-
Morning Phil :)
Was helping friend with Scottish History yesterday and my mind
was boggling by the time I got home. :D
Made the Link to Ireland though so was well chuffed. ;D
Anyway it seems through the original documents that what he
said when he enlisted was not quite true, but then we know that
don't we through other men.
Looks like we have a bit more digging to do. :D
Not today though so over to the rest of you on the thread. ;D
Sandy
-
Hello Steve,
That looks more likely, especially as the 9th West Yorks absorbed the 1/1st Yorkshire Hussars towards the end of 1917, according to LLT.
Both of his numbers look like TF.
Phil
-
I've since found another half a dozen drafted in from the Hunts Cyclists to the West Yorks, all with 325*** numbers. It looks like they transferred early 1918.
Phil
-
Hi Phil
As Anc********* have not got that far are there any records for him on TNA.
I still can not work that site out (TNA). ;D
Sandy
-
Hello Sandy,
If any of his service record survives, it will be in the so-called Burnt Documents, WO 363, which is only available on microfilm at TNA itself.
It is not possible to search a name individually on the Catalogue to see if the record survived.
Otherwise, it's if and when A**y decide to release it. >:(
Phil :)
-
Thanks for the reply Phil :)
I knew you would know the answer. ;D
Looks as though the 77 still remains un-solved then.
Sandy
-
Morning Phil :)
Whilst at Bedford Library yesterday afternoon I looked up the death
of the above Albert/Arthur and found it noted as below.
Warrilow Albert, Pte. 325216, W.Y.R. ,1918, Vol I.38, Page 296.
I also took images of all marriages behind the lines 1914-1926.
Be awhile before I get round to indexing them though. ;D
Sandy
-
Hi Phil.
Thanks for P.M.'s ;D
Sandy
-
My Richard Durden was killed in WW1, 1914.
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment: Northamptonshire Regiment
Battalion: 1st Battalion.
Number: 6354
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theater of War: Aldershot
DURDEN , RICHARD Serjeant 6354 10/11/1914 31 Northamptonshire Regiment United Kingdom Panel 43 and 45. YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
-
Rebeka,
Do you have Sergeant Durden's obituary and picture from the Northampton Independent of 5th December 1914?
Steve.
-
No I dont, do you actually have it? I couldnt even imagine seeing it, that would be so amazing. If you do and could email a copy or attach a link, I'd be eternally grateful!!
-
Hi Steve, Rebekahm.
I know Steve's might be a better copy, here is the article until
Steve puts up his.
The original image is clearer.
Sandy
-
That's the one... Here's my copy. Take your pick...
(The "sensational manner" refers to the way they found out the news, not his death itself)
He is mentioned again in December 1915 regarding the settlement of his "estate" of £24 8s 3d to his pal, Miss Trusler's brother whom he served with.
Great moustache....
-
This is possibly a portion of his medal card.
Sandy
-
If you do not have it a link to his info on the CWGC, Rebekahm
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1610889
137a Wellingborough Road, wasn't that the old St Edmunds Hospital,
previously the "Northampton Workhouse"
Sandy
-
Thankyou so, so much. I had never thought an obituary would exist, let alone know where to look for it; he had such a hard life and so did his siblings, its good to see that someone was bothered in the end. I really appreciate this. x
PS, yes it was the hospital attached to the workhouse. His father died in 1899 and his stepmum and sister stayed in the workhouse as far as I can see.
-
I suppose that considering his humble origins it is rather ironic that Sgt Durden left quite a sizeable sum in his will by the value of money of the day... (over £1,000)
I believe that Private H "Trussler" would be No. 12924 Harry Trusler, who enlisted on 31-8-1914, went to France to join 1st Battalion on 10-2-1915, was wounded at Loos with 1st Battalion (noted in the Times of 27-10-1915) and transferred to Class "P" Army Reserve on 22-6-1917, being discharged from the Army six months later on 30-1-1918 and granted Silver War Badge No. 211815.
From the Northampton Independent of 25-12-1915:
Steve.
-
Steve, I hope you do this professionally because you and Shane are a mine of knowledge! I have an inkling that Richard wasnt in touch with his family or at least not close to them (although he was listed as living with his brother in 1911), hence leaving the money to a fellow comrade. I think he wasnt receiving mail from anyone, so Harry Trussler asked his sister to write.....Im glad Richard at least had someone to befriend him, I feel so close to this family. Anyway sorry for rambling on! I never shut up given half a chance. Thankyou for this, what a day this has been! Have a lovely Christmas.
-
No, I'm not a professional...
Just got back in and checked online and I note Harry Trusler has extensive records in both the "Service Records" and "Pension Records" online in the collection of a not uncommon Genealogy site... The latter Pension record has pages to either side of the Index mark. Hary Trusler received an 8" wound to his back from flying shell fragments which gave him problems into the 1920s.
The service record even contains a note regarding monies received from Sgt Durden's estate.
Steve.
-
;D got it! 35 images! Think my Christmas has come early. xx
-
Hi again Rebekahm.
I asked Mick on the British War Graves if he had a image in the collection of Richard.
They have. :)
You may contact them on this link.
They are brill.
http://www.britishwargraves.co.uk/
Sandy
-
Sandy :) I'll do that now, thanks for this. I didnt even know you could send in requests, war research is completely new to me. What a helpful lot they must be to be doing this. Thankyou x