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Research in Other Countries => Canada Lookup Request => Canada => Canada Lookup Requests Completed => Topic started by: MikeW on Saturday 15 October 05 22:30 BST (UK)

Title: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MikeW on Saturday 15 October 05 22:30 BST (UK)
William Nelson Brown from Ireland -- visiting or living in Toronto, around 1890-1900 : anyone have any info on him or his relatives. He was fairly old at that time --  possibly died/buried Toronto ?
Wife/partner was Jane(Bleeks) when living in Ireland.   Any info appreciated.
                                  MW.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: KarenM on Sunday 23 October 05 18:42 BST (UK)
Hi Mike,

Do you have any other information that may help?  What makes you think he was in Toronto?  Do you know of other family members that were in Toronto?  Did his wife Jane come with him?  How old is old?

Karen
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MikeW on Sunday 23 October 05 22:29 BST (UK)
Hi Karen~
              Thank you for your interest.                            WNB was my grandfather's father-in-law  --  and so, one of my g-g-grandfathers.  His first wife died young, in 1844, and he had a second family with a "Jane Bleeks or Devlin" (widow?), according to one record. All that happened in Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland.
WNB was born around 1800-1810.....that's how I estimated  the 'old' bit!   And,  I have  a copy of an old photo, bearing a studio address in Toronto........which was where my grandparents emigrated to, after their marriage in 1900. Their first child(my uncle) was born in St Peter's Hosp.(family name Watters), but they  left Toronto within a few years.
I don't know what happened to WNB or Jane : the old tombstone in Tyrone only records up to the death of his first wife.     Just wondered if anyone in Rootschat had encountered the old guy, somewhere.    Looking for ANY Browns is  bad enough........but, you never know !
If you do come across anything of interest, I'd love to hear it.                 Thanks --
                                              MW.   
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: KarenM on Monday 24 October 05 14:46 BST (UK)
Hi Mike,

My "step" mother-in-law is a "Brown" from Toronto and York Region.  I'll ask her what she knows of the Brown family and get back to you.

Karen
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 25 October 05 19:04 BST (UK)
BROWN   William Nelson   Hampton Union (North Section)   Durham   Darlington   WO-182-5
found here:  http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/

But unfortunately we also have this listing which shows a Jane, but not right maiden name and also too young so that might be another William Nelson
In Brant Co., 1901... http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~maryc/thisisit.htm
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: KarenM on Tuesday 25 October 05 19:29 BST (UK)
Good Job JJ

Here's a link to the cemetery.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~onwob22/cemeteries/hamptonu.htm

(I was just by there a few weeks ago too!)

Karen
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 25 October 05 19:43 BST (UK)
Hello, again, Mike
 Actually, the father of the married man in the above listing is this man (below)
and although the son was only 36, in 1901 seems his father was quite old...
so am sending this anyway...from LDS Family search site. 1881 census...
Something to chew on....although could be mere coincidence.

William N.   Irish   70   Ireland   Farmer all are Presb
Jane   Irish   37   Turkey,   Mediterranean   
James B.      23   Ireland   Farmer 
Thomas B.     21   Ireland   Farmer 
Annie    18   Ireland      Presbyterian   
Bamber   15   Ontario   Farmer 
)p.s....Hi,Karen!)
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MikeW on Wednesday 26 October 05 00:46 BST (UK)
Karen and JJ:
                  What a surprise ! My sincere thanks to you both ~ I really wasn't expecting much(if anything ) by way of response. The items from the 1881 census COULD just be my missing WNB - the birth date of 1810/1811 would be about right, and he did have a son James born (in Ireland) 1858.    I certainly have a lot "to chew on" here. I will have to go and check my old notes again  -  see if anything else makes sense.  There was a Presbyterian/Protestant mixture...but I thought it was different. Also, the "Turkey/mediterranean" reference is puzzling .
 Thanks again to you both. Will be in touch.
                                                           Mike.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 26 October 05 02:41 BST (UK)
Yes, unfortunately you will need lots more information, here....as some things do not match...such as the bleeks maiden name. The lady although born in Ireland may have had parents elsewhere, so that may not a problem....and it may have been a recollection at the time for that person....censuses can have some pretty conflicting info, I've found....However, you will have to research more re: children,
as the only one on the family search was your James...
The listing for the Jane you seek is surely close in age...re: Fam.Search
JANE BLEEKS  Birth: 20 MAY 1845  Arboe, Tyrone, Ireland... so this is a toughy!

  Lots of good people in rootschat more savvy in the Ontario area...Keep plugging at it!!!! All the best.  J.J.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MJP on Wednesday 26 October 05 14:00 BST (UK)
Hi Mike,

It seems that the WNB who appears in the 1881 census in Ancaster, Ontario was also there in 1871.  Here is a database that indexes the heads of household only for that census http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/020108_e.html
To search for him, the district you want is Wentworth South.  His middle initial has been transcribed as V, but all other details fit with the guy in 1881. 
If you want to see this entire record you could order the film through inter-library loan. 

Martha
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MJP on Wednesday 26 October 05 14:19 BST (UK)
Hi again,

William N., Jane and son Thomas Brown of Ancaster are all buried in Saint Andrews Presbyterian cemetery in Ancaster.  See the tombstone transcriptions here http://www.interment.net/data/canada/ontario/wentworth/ancast/andrew/andrew_al.htm

Based on Jane's age at death, it seems her age of 37 in the 1881 census is incorrect - should be more like 57 (probably a mis-transcription). 

You mentioned that you knew WNB had a son James born in Ireland.  Was this from his first wife?  Because it seems that all of the children listed with the family in 1881 are Jane's children. 

As JJ already pointed out, Jane's maiden name is not Bleeks or Devlin.  It is given as McDonald in son Bamber's marriage record.  Find it here http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~maryc/thisisit.htm by typing [William Nelson Brown] in the little search box on the left.

Martha
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 26 October 05 17:16 BST (UK)
Ahhh...so I suppose we are "barking up the wrong family tree" as I call it...
the age of Jane seems to throw a wrench into it....unless she was an ultra
good fibber all her life! My Gran lied about 11 years!!!! But this gal was with
an older fella, so that wouldn't likely be....
 :-\   J.J. ( sorry about that)
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MJP on Wednesday 26 October 05 17:57 BST (UK)
Didn't mean to imply an oversight on your part JJ!  I was just drawing attention to the fact that the maiden name was different than what Mike was expecting.  It could still be the right family, since there are other details match - I guess it would depend on how much credence Mike puts in his other source that gave him the Bleeks/Devlin name and whether or not he knows if the children were from the first or second wife...

Martha
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 26 October 05 19:04 BST (UK)
Hi, Martha...
Well, I suppose that Bleeks could have been a first marriage name
for Jane, also...and that she reverted to her original maiden name
when asked...? I just took a look at the listings for Jane bleeks on the
I.G.I. and there is a "Mrs. Jane Bleeks":b. About 1825 Arboe, Tyrone, Ire.
ahhh...more speculation...!! A real mystery for you to solve, Mike! Haha...
Perhaps there would be more info on the marriage or death documents to
help solve this....hope so!!!
 J.J.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MikeW on Friday 28 October 05 00:48 BST (UK)
Hi -
  Late last night I checked Rootschat, and was overwhelmed by such an enthusiastic and generous response : why didn't I try this before ?!   I wonder....if I put ALL my dead-ends on a rootschat posting, I could have the whole shebang solved in no time !    Seriously, thanks for all the input.  WNB was not a top priority  -  more of a niggling puzzle that's been lurking  among the "must-do"s, as  family history is very much an after-work/spare-time pursuit, and I'm only a rank amateur, both at FH and computer-use !
 I found the  old, handwritten list with WNB's "Jane" (copied for me by someone at the Mormon library, some years ago) : the 'Bleeks/Devlin reference was NOT on a marriage list, but as a  birth.....12/7/1832  -- the only Jane that would fit in with the ages of WNB's second family :
   Susan, 1852
   Emily,   1856
   James, 1858.....
which would lead neatly on to the details given here the other night  -  Thomas, 1860
             Annie,      1863
             Bamber,   1866

so, the maiden name MCDonald is quite a possibility, and MJP's guess at 57 instead of 37 would be totally credible.

Just to add to the "fun" : WNB's first son, John(1836)  married and had a son in 1873, and named him........   yes, WNB !
 Continuing to sort this lot out.
Thanks again, to everybody.  Will be in touch.

                                       Mike W.
   
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MJP on Friday 28 October 05 02:16 BST (UK)
Glad we could be of assistance Mike!  Hope you solve the mystery...

Martha
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 14 December 06 04:40 GMT (UK)
Here's that 1871!
William V.   59
Jane McD  42 ...from the "Island of Corfew" 

Now you will need to sort this mess out! First 6 say born Ireland...
Guess 1st. son might be using middle name... 
Nelson 20
Elezebeth 15
Amelia 14
James12
Thomas 10
Nancie A.  8
Bamber(?) 6 Ont

http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/7/o022e100.htm
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 14 December 06 04:45 GMT (UK)
William & Jane in 1891, with Bamber still at home, he's a shoemaker...http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/9/o049b120.htm

Still with his mother in 1901
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/DisplayPagePanb.jsp?id=30739&highlight=6

Now his mother is with him...in 1911
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test9.jsp?id=32317&framed=true
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MikeW on Sunday 17 December 06 20:30 GMT (UK)
 ;) Hi J.J. ~
           Thank you for the surprise reply...
  Due to the great help I received on this site before, I had already come across these references.       There are still some curious discrepancies, but I guess that's down to  confusion over two families, and/or error in transcribing at some stage.       More recently, I came across a distant relative (on another branch) in Australia....who happened to have some info about the Brown side BEFORE they emigrated to Canada...... which filled-in  two  more relevant  gaps in my tree, and I could give him a couple of items he didn't have before.
 Great when that happens, isn't it !
  Keep hunting !  Thanks again, and Happy Christmas !.
                                     Mike W.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 17 December 06 21:15 GMT (UK)
Have a wonderful Holiday season, Mike and all you other rootschatters...J.J.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: Debbie P on Monday 26 September 11 20:08 BST (UK)
Nelson Brown & Jane Bleeks arrived in Canada in 1863 at the port of Quebec.  This is where their youngest child, Bamber, was born.  They eventually wound up in Ancaster and then Brantford.  I tried to attach a photo but the file is too large.

Deb Patterson
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: MikeW on Monday 26 September 11 21:54 BST (UK)
Thanks, Deb ~ sending longer reply as a Personal Message.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: Debbie P on Tuesday 27 September 11 00:28 BST (UK)
Great Mike.  Dying to talk to you.
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 27 September 11 00:53 BST (UK)
Modify & remove the email address now or you'll be spammed. Send it in a reply to the personal message.

Welcome to rootschat...
Title: Re: William Nelson Brown
Post by: Debbie P on Tuesday 27 September 11 00:56 BST (UK)
Thanks!