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Messages - JustinL

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 302
1
The Common Room / Re: Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Saturday 27 November 21 12:19 GMT (UK)  »
You are correct in what you say about Orthodox beliefs.

However, I think the real explanation could be that for Orthodox Jews the civil marriage certificate was of little significance. The Jewish marriage contract - the ketuba - was of vital importance. One could only prove one's Jewishness and be permitted to marry in a synagogue in the 19th century by presenting one's parent's ketuba.

Ketubot identify the groom and bride with their full patronymic names, i.e. X son or daughter of Y (the father).



2
The Common Room / Re: Jewish marriages in private homes in the 1870s?
« on: Saturday 27 November 21 09:37 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Roger,

I had the same question when I received the marriage cert of my ggf's brother. He and his bride had married in functions rooms, rather than in the New West End Synagogue (near Hyde Park) whose minister had officiated at their wedding.

The sexton explained that the synagogue had only been completed and consecrated in 1879, the year before the marriage of my ggf's brother, and the interior was quite plain. Later works created a more sumptuous interior appearance. The sexton hypothesised that the plain interior may have put people off, hence they opted for an alternative venue.

Another factor to consider, is the convenience of holding the marriage ceremony and the subsequent celebrations in one place. If the private home was itself quite sumptuous, I imagine the parents of the bride would have been eager to show off their affluence.

Do you know who was living in Bedford House at the time? I believe Edgbaston was already an affluent suburb of Birmingham by the 1870s.

3
The Common Room / Re: Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Saturday 27 November 21 08:50 GMT (UK)  »
Once again, thank you to you all, in particular to Jon.

I have located the act in full in Google books. For those interested, the free eBook is here
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01r35/

You may find the attached original and certified copy of a marriage certificate of interest. The difference in the signatures is clearly visible.

4
The Common Room / Re: Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Friday 26 November 21 15:26 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experiences.

I'll be back with a fuller response soon

5
The Common Room / Re: Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 14:06 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Bookbox,

Looks they were a bit lax in recording the details in that synagogue.

I recommended the MA route to the Dutch guy I'm helping. He has indicated that the response from the United Synagogue was to order the GRO certs. Maddening. I have asked him for a clarification.

6
The Common Room / Re: Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 13:28 GMT (UK)  »
David and Jon,

Thank you for your informative replies.

Seems like it would be a gamble, at best, to order copies from the local RO or the GRO.

Very frustrating.

7
The Common Room / Re: Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 12:36 GMT (UK)  »
Heywood,

I believe that the 10-year-old in the Jewish orphanage could be the same person, but she ended up in Leeds with another family member, a probable cousin Elizabeth Domben/Dombein who had married Jacob Wolfe in the same synagogue in 1863. J. Wolfe witnessed both weddings in 1869.

Elizabeth Blashkey (born Dombin) clearly told her children the name of her father, otherwise it would not have been inscribed on her gravestone - Beyla daughter of Asher.

8
The Common Room / Fathers not named on marriage certificates - laziness?
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 12:04 GMT (UK)  »
Hello everyone,

As far as I know, or recall, the 'signing of the registers' following a marriage ceremony actually entails (or entailed) signing two registers; one was retained by the institute where the marriage took place, the other being hand over to the registry office. The latter set of registers form the collection held by the GRO.

The two attached certificates were provided by the Belgrave Synagogue in Leeds, where Moses Dombin and Elizabeth Dombin married (different partners) on 14 August 1869. Only the name of the father of Elizabeth's husband was recorded. The parents of Moses' wife, Catherine, were very much alive and living in living in Mile End Old Town. She and Moses were living with them in 1871; she was still with them in 1881, when Moses was investigating a future in the USA.

Elizabeth Blashkey (born Dombin) lived to the grand old age of 98, dying in 1948. The Hebrew inscription on her gravestone states that her father was called Asher; the name she gave to her first-born son in 1872. Moses Dombin's third son, born in 1881, was also called Asher. This leads me to believe that Moses and Elizabeth were cousins, rather than siblings. But that's another story for another thread.

The question is, would it be worth while ordering certs from the GRO in the expectation that they had been completed in full and would include the names of all the fathers?

Justin

9
Armed Forces / Re: Crimea War
« on: Monday 25 October 21 14:57 BST (UK)  »
Oops, I made the same mistake scrolling back in haste to image 315.


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