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Messages - Xotan

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 15
1
Carlow / Re: Annie Lawler
« on: Saturday 09 November 13 11:19 GMT (UK)  »
Hello madPat,

We share a problem, then.  If I lived in Ireland perhaps the two of us could help to free up the records that are buried under such heavy tomes.

Actually, the library staff there were models of courtesy and help.  So I have no reason in the world to doubt what I was told.  The lady in question would undoubtedly have broken her back trying to get at the relevant records if there were a chance she could succeed.  And other staff in other agencies there were generous with their time and assistance.  So I do not fault the staff.  Rather, I think there could be a storage problem.  That would cost money to put to right, and money is the one thing that is not available.  However, I wonder if there is a legal requirement that burial records should be available, especially for police and judicial reasons?  That could be a line to pursue.  I would be reluctant to put any member of the staff under pressure on this account.  But perhaps the county council might be the people to approach.  Any thoughts of who?  County Manager?  What about freedom of information act?  Or has that been scrapped?  (Just think of all the money wasted on setting it up!  Possibly the likely result would be the imposition of a hefty charge on getting access to any record which should  be freely available to any citizen.  And even though I live abroad, I still an a citizen!

For the moment I am chipping away in other directions, but will come back to it in the new year in the hope that the heavy tomes will have been moved.

Xotan/David.

2
Dublin / Re: Harriet Stack
« on: Tuesday 05 November 13 22:10 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Mad Pat

Here's what I have

Simpson Gen I

Enoch Simpson 1825- 1868 m Eliza Murphy 1827 - post 1868
                                          I
Gen II
Richard m Catherine Byrne  1858 -    Enoch Henry b 1868   Alfred 1859 - 1893 m Amelia Roche
            I                                                                                                     I                   
Gen III                                                                                                        I
Enoch   Kathleen   Mgt                                                                                  I
                                                                                                                  I
                                                                              Harriet   Mgt   Amelia   Florence   Frederick


On the Roche (sometimes Roache) side

Gen I

Stephen Roche 1828 - 1893 m Harriet Stack
                                          I
Gen II                                 I
                                          I
Amelia 1853 - 1933 m (1880 Alfred Simpson)  James 1847 -   Stephen 1850 -    William 1854 -

I am slowly building on the later generations.  In fact, I personally remember all Generation II of the Simpsons.  The Roche branch is another matter entirely.  I mainly only have dates of birth - so far.

The Emilia you found is in fact a Latin version of Amelia.  If the priest's Latin had been a little more classical he might have given it as Aemilia!

I have not been able to give all the dates above.  But I do have a little more information, such as
Enoch Henry's baptism, and Richards marriage.

I note also that the Haynes family (Sometimes Haines) crops up a lot on the records.  They seem to be related.

Insofar as the three Simpson brothers go, I reckon that Alfred was the eldest, then Enoch Henry, and Richard was the youngest.

Thanks for your interest and help.

Xotan/David


3
Dublin / Re: Harriet Stack
« on: Tuesday 05 November 13 18:29 GMT (UK)  »
Hello taramcdsmall

The General Stack Wiki link you provide is indeed the person we are told (family lore) is the parent of Harriet Stack.

In my searching I came across a Patrick, but he seemed a son of Harriet, by Stephen Roche.  I have been unable to find any other reference to him, and am struggling with your references  on  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wra/  and http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.ireland.ker.general/387.503/mb.ashx as They are closely written and difficult to follow, with my eyesight.
down
Apropos, I seem to have the full generations down from Harriet and Stephen Roche's marriage.

So, basically I am trying to establish one way or the other if there is any foundation to the family lore that would seek to link Harriet Stack with General Stack.

From the kind of life he led, I wonder that he would have found time to father children.  Any of the material on him on the net that I have come across focuses almost totally on his military/naval career.  I have not come across any reference to a marriage or to family.

Any pointers in that direction would be greatly appreciated.

Xotan/David


4
Dublin / Harriet Stack
« on: Tuesday 05 November 13 11:48 GMT (UK)  »
I hope I am posting this in the right place.  Also I have to acknowledge that the text is a cousin's.  We share the same gt grandmother, and we have only just got to know each other on the net.  Clearly we share the same interest in an ancestress, Harriet Stack.  My cousin's text explains the rest:

"I’m currently doing some research on my family history. The records in Ireland aren’t readily available online before 1850. We have no definitive proof at this stage, but believe there is a strong possibility that there is a relationship to General Edward Stack b 1750, d 1833. My father recalls older generations speaking of a French connection in the Family. This was possibly General Stack’s wife who we think was called Amelia or some possible variation of this name.  [Amélie? - Xotan]

Amelia is a name that has featured in the Simpson family through several generations. I have an aunt (my father’s sister) named Amelia. My Great Grandmother and Great Great Grandmother were also Amelia. Amelia first appeared in the family tree with my Great Great Grandmother - Amelia Simpson (née Roche or Roache – the exact spelling is unclear, but we think it’s Roche). She married my Great Grandfather, Alfred Simpson, in January 1880. She was born in 1863 and died on February 2, 1933. I can see from the details on the marriage certificate that her father’s name was Stephen Roche. There is no reference to her mother’s name. We’re guessing that her mother could have been a daughter of General Stack. 

There is a story in the family that General Stack’s wife came from a French Protestant family and converted to Catholicism in order to marry him. Following this, her family disowned her, but didn’t give her some property in Dublin which we believe was in the Golden Bridge area where my father’s side of the family originates from.

Do you have any information regarding General Stack’s wife and children? This may help me tie Amelia Roche to General Stack. There is some information online about General Stack and his career, but I've been unable to find anything regarding his wife and children.

Thanks,"


The same story has come down on my side of the family.  IN fact, I recall my grandmother Amelia (obit 1962) refer to the General's wife as Lady Amelia, who presumably was thought to be Harriet's mother.  None of us, however, have been able to go back beyond Stephen Roche (1818 - 1893) and his wife Harriet Stack.

At this point, having hit the brickwall, is there any chance that some kind soul out there could have some information which would advance our search, please?

Xotan/David

5
Oxfordshire / Re: HOLLIDAY family / Dorchester on Thames
« on: Thursday 24 October 13 14:21 BST (UK)  »
I am coming in very late on this thread.

Alice Holliday (c.1839 - 1898) was my gr.gr grandmother through my mother's (Alice King) line.  She married William King (1840 - 1903) of Dorchester on Thames.

Alice Holliday's parents were William Holliday (1814 - ?)and Jane Treadwell (1809 - ?).

I have some possible further links back on the Treadwell side, but they need careful checking.  If you wish you can check them on my tree (David Monks) which is public.  As matters stand I appear to have William Holliday descending from the Treadwell line.  This is an error which I have to correct.  But, mutatis mutandis, it offers you the option of pursuing the Treadwells, should you wish to do so.

David.

6
Carlow / Re: Annie Lawler
« on: Tuesday 15 October 13 16:05 BST (UK)  »
Looks like I may be talking to myself here, but I could hardly have a better audience than that ;D.

We have met a hitherto unknown first cousin in Co. Wexford on the way to/from the ferry, and have established a good link there, pooling our information.  This has resulted in being able to construct a family tree which extends back to the 1850s.  Quite a step forward!  Of course each discovery leads to more questions.  that is the nature of genealogy, I suppose.

One question that is perhaps the most pressing is the burial place of Annie Lawler dob 1920, dod 1941.  In my previous posting I mentioned that there is no record in the Parish House, Rathvilly, of her burial in the cemetery there.  As she died in Carlow I am now assuming that the burial would have taken place in a cemetery there.  The library in Carlow was unable to help me when I queried, as the relevant records were 'under other registers' which the person was unable to lift.  I can appreciate that there would be a personal difficulty, but it is not really satisfactory that records should not be available.  However, we rely so much on the goodwill of people that I was reluctant to press the matter.  The problem is what to do now?

Some information points back towards the County Library: unmarried mothers anf their babies, I have just been informed, were were not allowed to leave the County Home unless they were getting married.  Therefore Annie Lawler would have been buried in Saint Mary's Cemetery, Carlow, and not in Rathvilly.  But I am unable to find records for Saint Mary's burials on the web.  Actually, I am grasping at straws.

7
Carlow / Re: Annie Lawler
« on: Saturday 28 September 13 09:12 BST (UK)  »
It's been a while since last I posted on this thread - a health issue, a long-term guest, some necessary travel, and even a holiday have limited the amount of time I had available.

Still, I have not entirely neglected the matter.  I have discovered that some of the information that was gleaned earlier was not quite on the mark (there was confusion over twins, emigration to Australia etc) and this led to pursuing some false trails.  There was a breakthrough, though, and this led to getting some documents which steered me back onto the right path.

I can now confirm from documents that Annie Lawler (confirmed NOT Lawlor)

 - born 26 July 1920
 - died 30 January 1941 in the County Home.  This rules out Australia.
 - she had worked as a domestic in Carlow.
 - is commemorated on a headstone in Rathvilly cemetery
 - She was not a twin.

Now another mystery.  I cannot be sure she was buried in Rathvilly.  There is no record of her death or burial in the parish records.  The commemoration on the headstone could be a simple memorial rather than an actual record of burial.  The death certificate, of course, does not mention burial.

When I saw the inscription on the stone I thought the matter was finally cracked.  Then the news came in that there is no burial record in Rathvilly...  I have an inquiry under way with Carlow County Library to see if there is a death notice in the Nationalist paper.  I hope, if there is, it may give a location for the burial.

Any other ideas or thoughts as to where to research confirmation, please? 

 

8
Oxfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: King, Dorchester on Thames
« on: Monday 03 June 13 16:32 BST (UK)  »
Hello Jen,

I think you are mistaken.  I do not seem to have mention the name Hatch in any of my postings on this thread.  A search brings up only your posting of today.  Just in case something has slipped my mind, can you indicate where I did mention the people you are researching, please?


9
Dublin / Re: Death of Great great grandfather Dublin 1872
« on: Monday 29 April 13 20:47 BST (UK)  »
I'm just catching up on family research after a while away from it and my eye was caught by this thread.

There are some matters here that seem to link into my family.  My Gt. Aunt Polly (Mary) Shortall (née Coyle) lived with her husband, (latterly Sir) Patrick Coyle in 47 Hardwicke Street, and as far as I knew, the house was given them by her father, Patrick Coyle as a wedding present.  If true, a handsome present!  That, at least, is the story handed down.)  My paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Ann Monks, Polly's sister, lived in No. 46.  It was she who told me that Polly had lived next door.  There was never any indication that Shortalls did not own the house.  Quite the contrary. 

Polly died in 1915 while the family were still living at No. 47; and Sir Patrick in 1925, but by then he seems to have moved to Clontarf.

The Monks family also had property in Buckingham Street, Nos 3 & 4.   My Gt. uncle Nicholas Monks was left a share in the properties in my Gt Gt grandfathers will of 1902. The odd thing is that he (gt. uncle) died in 1928, but in No.37.

Desmond, if your forebears lived in No. 47 Hardwicke Street and 4 Buckingham Street it raises an interesting situation.  My personal recollection of Hardwicke Street is of horrible tenements that had permanently open doors, no lighting of common areas, poor sewage.  Clearly it was not always like that, and No. 46 at the Frederick street end was always single family house.  And from personal recollection, No. 47, unlike other most other houses in the street, always had a locked halldoor.  I assumed on this basis that it too was a family house.  I should perhaps add that I can recall Hardwicke Street going back into the late 1940s when air raid shelters occupied the centre of the roadway.

I am at a loss to explain how Shortalls and your family lived in the same house.  Shortall, who was some kind of builder, was far from being a poor man.  But this does not fit with the fact that they lived there even after Shortall would have moved out.  Perhaps one or the other family owned the house and leased a floor, as Shane has touched upon.

LATER

I have looked at the 1901 and 1911 Censuses and I find I have to revise, yet again, information that was passed down through the family as misleading or plain wrong.  Yes, the Shortalls did live in 47, who the house belonged to I cannot say for certain.  Certainly there were others living there, although on what basis they or the Shortalls shared the house, I cannot say at this stage - another fact to be established.  Shortall is describer as a Builder, and at this stage he had not yet got his knighthood.

The connection of Buckingham Street AND Hardwicke Street with both our families is curious.  This posting doesn't really throw any light on your original question, but it does suggest at some kind of link.

I have a picture of 47 Hardwicke Street of which I can let you have a copy, if you wish  The houses (46 & 47) were double-fronted, but were only one room front to back.  They had basement kitchens and outside were the areas overlooked directly by the footpath.  The areas, at street level had protective iron railings set into granite kerbs. Three granite steps supported by an arch over the area, leading to the front door.  Just outside the frontdoor there were shoe scrapers.  There were cellars that extended out under the footpath, and perhaps partly under the road too.  In my recollection those at 46 were used to store coal, which was delivered to the cellar through a manhole cover on the footpath.  They had two storeys above the ground floor.  No. 46, alas, no longer exists.  Dublin Corporation acquired most of the houses in the street for housing development in flats.  No. 46 was the last one they acquired.  It broke my grandmother's heart as she had lived there since she had married in 1901.

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