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Messages - goldie61

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The Common Room / Re: Newspaper look up
« on: Monday 25 October 21 10:13 BST (UK)  »
Thanks maddy and BumbleB.

I think the first one must be 1954  BumbleB - not 1854 as you have put. (That would make him VERY old!)

The Peterborough one in 1844 is very interesting.
I think Charles Douglas Smith was his brother in law, but I didn't know they were in Peterborough by then.

Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Richarde Killinge married who?
« on: Monday 25 October 21 02:30 BST (UK)  »

You sometimes get these odd names.
I have a 'Phaunia' in the mid 1600s, with variations, who I have never been able to track down!

This name reminded me of a video I watched recently about the name "Tiffany" - one of the variations was Theophania;)

Wow that's interesting Maddy.
I've tried allsorts. I even wondered if it was just a fancy 'Fanny', so hence Ann or Hannah, but always faced with a solid wall.  :(

The Common Room / Newspaper look up
« on: Monday 25 October 21 02:27 BST (UK)  »
There are several items in The Manchester Evening News in the 1940s and 1950s for A J Shipsides. His name was Albert James, but was always known as Jimmy.
They are to do with him as a  producer of plays at the Carver Theatre, I'm suppposing in Marple, Cheshire, about 10 miles from Manchester, and often included in the Manchester Evening News.
I have managed to find these mentions:
28th Sept 1949 for a play called “Roller Skating”.
14th Feb 1955 “Priness Ida”
28th Sept 1955 ‘Waiting for Gillian”
19th Feb 1958 “Babes in the Wood”

As we have been back in strict lockdown for nearly 3 months now, the libraries, where I would normally access The British Newspaper Archive, have been closed, and goodness knows when they will open again.
Is there any kind person who can access the actual items and give me a bit more information than just the little bit you get in the ‘hits’?

He died in 1967, and I would have thought they would have been an obituary for him somewhere, but I can’t find one. I think the  Manchester Evening News doesn’t go up to 1967, and I see The Stockport Advertiser, another local paper, has all of one year, 1842,  on the BNA!

Thanks for any help

Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Richarde Killinge married who?
« on: Monday 25 October 21 01:14 BST (UK)  »
The letters in the first name do indeed look like 'P', 'h', 'r','i','z', 'y', 'e'.
You can see the same 'r' in the middle of Richard's name, and that is a classic capital 'P' in this hand.

The second name might be 'Auger' or 'Anger' - it is difficult to distinguish a 'u' from an 'n'.
It looks to be formed very much like the 'u' in 'June' below, and you can see the 'u' and the 'n' are virtually identical in that word.

You sometimes get these odd names.
I have a 'Phaunia' in the mid 1600s, with variations, who I have never been able to track down!

The Common Room / Re: 1939 national register
« on: Monday 25 October 21 01:05 BST (UK)  »
I think I'm correct in saying lookups in the 1939 are not allowed here on Rootschat.
No doubt the moderator will make a comment.

I had a scoot around for any Angel wills when looking for the Bounsall ones amondg.
Same results. Some in Cornwall, but none that seem to fit, and most of those that were listed were now missing.
Wouldn't hurt for the original poster to do a more thorough search though.

I have been trying to find the Launceston connection which was vaguely mentioned in the original post, but no evidence why.

Cracked it!
There is an entry on Ancestry for the birth of Joseph's son in 1762,
It's listed as a non conformist or non parochial register, but it's not a birth register as such.
It's actually the register from the Holburn British Lying in Hospital Endell street.

'Armiel', wife of Joseph Bounsell, 'Taylor', was taken in on 5th June 1762. James was born in the 7th, and baptised on the 10th. She was discharged on the 26th June.
Under the heading for Arminall and Joseph's 'parish' it says Launceston, Cornwall (lovingly transcribed on Ancestry as 'Lanceston Cornwel' - mind you, it does look like 'Cornwel' in the register so we'll forgive them that one.)
So there we have the evidence that Joseph was from Launceston.
And so that baptism of Joseph Bounsal in 1737 looks like a very good fit.

By the way, I checked, and also have the transcripts of the Launceston bishop's transcripts. Although the burial of the Joseph as an infant in 1722 that was in the Cornwall On-line Parish Clerks listing, doesn't seem to be there.
The On-line Parish Clerk site also has other sorts of records you might like to look at Tadlow.
I found it an easier site than freereg because you have to flip backwards and forwards pages for each record on freereg, and on the On-line parish Clerk, it comes up as a list you can just scan down.

I don't know much about these 'Lying in Hospitals', but I suspect you had to pay to be admitted, indicating that Joseph was able to do that.

Reading through your post, I'm not sure what evidence there is for saying he was born in Launceston.
Do you have something prior to his marriage in London that places him somewhere other than Greenwich, which at this time was classed as Kent.

Have you seen the transcription on findmypast of Joseph Bounsall taking on an apprentice in 1786, where he is given as a master tailor of Plymouth? (Comes under the 'Education and Work' heading).
This transcription is from The Society of Genealogists , and held at The National Archives at Kew. It gives all the reference numbers to be able to get hold of it should you want to.
There is also a similar apprenticeship record in 1804 for a 'Josh' Bounsall at Maker, which is a place about 9 miles from Plymouth but just in Cornwall. He was a Cordwainer (shoemaker).
And also one for a James Bounsall in 1785, also a master tailor, also at Maker. (I wonder if this is your Joseph's son? Born in 1762, he would be 23 years old by 1785).

This would suggest that to become a 'master tailor', Joseph himself would have had an apprenticeship. Perhaps this was why he was in London?
There is a website 'londonroll', which has records of thousands of apprenticeship records.
I had a quick look, but there does not appear to be any soundex for variations of name, so you have to put in  all the different possibilities of Bounsall. I couldn't see Joseph but you may like to have a more thorough look. Don't worry about trying to pick a particular company he might have been in - I have found you didn't necessarily get an apprenticeship in the company of your trade. For example I have a dyer who was apprenticed in the Drapers' Company, and also workers on boats on the Thames who were also apprenticed to the Drapers' Company. Just pick 'all companies'.
Apprenticeships were usually for 7 years, more often than not started when the apprentice was about 14, and one of the conditions was that apprentices should not marry within that time.
(If James the master cordwainer in 1785 IS Joseph's son, there should be an apprenticeship record for him too somewhere.)

As your Joseph was married in 1761, one supposes he  was possibly about 22 years old by then, so born about 1739.

As you say, there do not seem to be any births on the usual sites.
There is an expectation that ancestry, findmypast and familysearch have all the records that exist.
This is of course not true, and sometimes we have to find other avenues to search.

There is a website, the Cornwall On-line Parish Clerk.
There are many listings for the Bounsall name (plus variations).

A Joseph Bounsal married Ann Ferris in 1720 at Launceston St Mary Magdelen.
They had several children baptised at the same church.
On 30 August 1721, a Joseph Bounsall was baptised, father Joseph, a weaver.
This child was then buried 13 August 1722.
Baptisms of several other children until another Joseph Bounsal, baptised 5 Nov 1737,  father 'Jos:', a weaver.
There is no corresponding burial for him as a child. has the films of the Bishop's Transcripts which is viewable from home if you're signed in. They don't seem to have the ordinary registers for St Mary Magdelene's church, which is a bit odd. Perhaps none survive.
(Don't search 'records' on familysearch, but go to 'catalog', and put in the place name Launceston. Go down to 'church records', and then find the right film.)

Unless you know something else about him being from Cornwall, it's still not proof that this is the Joseph Bounsall you're looking for, though it looks a possibility.

Normally, the next course of action would be to search wills to see if you can join up the dots.
Unfortunately, most Devon (and Cornwall), wills were destroyed during the bombing of Exeter in WWII, as they were housed at the cathedral there.
There is a site of The Consolidated Wills Index for Devon and Cornwall
There are some Bounsall entries, but nothing that seems the right time for your Bounsalls. Plus many of these entries tell you there USED to be a will, but it is now missing, so I always find it a very frustrating site!
It's worth looking at though for information.
There ARE a few Bounsall wills on the Cornwall archives site
Can't see any that fit with yours, but you never know.
Have you searched this Cornwall site, or the Devon one at
for any information that might be held there about the family?

Derbyshire / Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
« on: Monday 18 October 21 23:25 BST (UK)  »
There are various avenues you could try.

First, do you know for a fact she was born in Castleton as you say in your first sentence?
It is not necessarily so just because she got married there.
Have you seen the actual entry in the register, or is there an application for a marriage licence that places her there?

Secondly, remember these were the baptisms recorded, and not the births. Usually babies were baptised pretty soon after birth, but not always. Sometimes they could be a few months or even years old.

Thirdly, there ARE Tym/Tymm/Tymme families in the Castleton registers in that period.
It may be her baptism was missed for some reason.
For example, a Robert and Ellen Tym baptised at least 3 daughters there - in 1690, 1693, and 1696.
You could try and find Robert's marriage, see if there are gaps in the baptisms of their children, or baptisms of any other children nearby.

Fourthly, I found these children of Henry Nall and Maria at Castleton - Robert in 1721, Henry 1723, Maria 1725, Matthew 1727, and Martha in 1730. Have you found any others? I would have expected a child before the one in 1721. Sometimes the wife returned to her home for the birth of her first child. Perhaps somewhere other than Castleton?

Fifthly, have you traced Henry Nall's parents? Are any of the children named after them? It's a good possibility, as they name a son Henry and a daughter Maria, that the names of their other children are also family names.

And lastly, have you looked at wills? These can be a great source of information.
There are several Tymm wills on findmypast (Derbyshire came under the Diocese of Lichfield. The wills from there are now at Staffordshire Record Office, but are on findmypast).
I can't see one for Robert Tym - he seems to have died in 1744 in Castleton, but if you can find his birth, there may be one for his father, who may name his grandchildren. There are quite a few Tymm wills on there.
The other wills to look at are the Nall ones. If you know Henry's father, and the date of his death, you could look for that one.
Depending on how much you want to find her, it's often worth looking at the wills of any other possibly members of the family - bequests can be made to daughters in law, nieces, granddaughters etc etc. Bachelor uncles and spinster aunts were often good at leaving bequests to a wide range of family members.

The Common Room / Re: Probate Issued 1685/86?
« on: Sunday 17 October 21 02:07 BST (UK)  »
It might be worth you getting the will of the other Edmund.
You never know what relationships might be mentioned in it .

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