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Messages - Elwyn Soutter

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 390
1
Lanarkshire / Re: John Waddell the Martyr
« on: Sunday 24 March 24 21:06 GMT (UK)  »


Freda Bingley lists baptisms in Seaforde, County Down, of James in 1738 and Thomas in 1739 to Thomas W and Jane Bruce. She attributes them to the IGI (International Genealogical Index) but I can't find them there or anywhere else on the FamilySearch web site.

Seaforde is in the parish of Loughinisland. There are various churches there (Church of Ireland, several Presbyterian and RC). However none has records for the 1730s. The oldest is the Church of Ireland. Their records start in 1760. (Copy held in PRONI in Belfast).

So whatever the source of these baptisms is, it seems unlikely to be supported by any surviving church records.

2
Antrim / Re: Charles & Eliza SPARROW
« on: Wednesday 20 March 24 11:42 GMT (UK)  »
I searched for Sparrow marriages in the Belfast area 1855-1875 but only found this one which is presumably Charles junior:

8264049.pdf (irishgenealogy.ie) (The link doesn't seem to be accessible so you may need to look the marriage up on irishgenealogy, if you don't already have it. 1865.

The family are in the City Cemetery:

Charles William died 20.3.1954
Mary Jane 4.5.1950
Charles 5.1.1882
Eliza 4.2.1881 aged 75 (his mother perhaps?)
Charles 9.2.1909

3
Antrim / Re: Stewarts
« on: Monday 18 March 24 20:22 GMT (UK)  »
I can’t find a death for a Jean Stewart in 1873. Nearest was this in 1874 for a widowed  farmer’s wife from Tullybane, Dunaghy (near Clough). Jean and Jane are interchangeable names in Ireland (and Scotland).

7247273.pdf (irishgenealogy.ie)

There are several trees on Ancestry that have this family but I have to say not all the information on them looks accurate to me. Exercise caution if relying on any of them.

For example, the McCann tree has your Joseph b 1785 as the father of another Joseph Stewart b 1801 who married Maria Hall in 1852. You can see the likely  marriage certificate here:

5413134.pdf (irishgenealogy.ie)

You will see that the Joseph shown there had a father named William Stewart, not Joseph, that he was 27 years of age so born c 1825, not 1801 and that his bride was Jane not Maria. Otherwise spot on! He did live in Tullybane though. There was a Joseph Stewart born 1801 who  died 1881 in Tullybane but I think someone has got their lines mixed up as to who was married to who and who is descended from whom. 1881 death here. Note that he was still married:

4845485.pdf (irishgenealogy.ie)

Though most pre 1901 Irish censuses were lost, a few fragments survive, including those for Tullybane in 1851. There were 3 Stewart families living there then:

National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911
National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911
National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911

I’ll leave you to work out how they were all related.

There are a number of Stewart & Mann graves in Clough graveyard. This one relates to one of the Tullybane families:

[on east face] In loving memory, of, Hugh Stewart, Tullybane, died 27th December 1910, aged 79 years, and his daughters, Louisa, died 28th December 1910, aged 37 years. Margaret died 30th July 1883 aged 16 years, Jane died 2nd February 1864, aged 1 year and 7 months, Mary died 19th February 1968. Stewart [On north face] Jane McCaughey, wife of, Hugh Stewart, died 16th July 1914, aged 75 years. Their son John, died 7th March 1951 aged 72 years, His wife, Martha Ruth Conn, died 29th January 1974, aged 87 years.

Much Irish research comes to a stop around 1800 due to the general lack of records. Clough Presbyterian church is one of the oldest in Ireland and the congregation there dates back to the mid 1600s. Unfortunately in the mid 1800s there was a fire and all their early records were lost.

Incidentally Jean Moharg is more likely to be Meharg. That’s a fairly common name in Co Antrim.
Hope some of this is of help.

4
Down / Re: Church of Ireland Baptisms
« on: Saturday 16 March 24 09:10 GMT (UK)  »
The PRONI guide to church records says that the Banbridge COI records start in 1802 (Seapatrick parish). They have a copy from 1802 up to the mid 1900s. PRONI doesn’t have them on-line so a personal visit is required to view them.

To answer your question about mandatory baptism, no it wasn't mandatory, and not everyone was baptised. Plus some were baptised later in life. You sometimes see batch baptisms where a whole string of children in the same family were all baptised at once, some many years after their birth. So you need to search widely at times.

5
Down / Re: Finlay/Edgar of Bangor, Down - The clue was in the children's names
« on: Tuesday 05 March 24 05:36 GMT (UK)  »
It’s long been a common custom for Presbyterians in particular to use a surname as a middle name. It can sometimes be the mother’s maiden name but often it’s the name of someone the family respects. Perhaps the local Minister or a teacher. Perhaps a relative.

The practice is common in Scotland and was brought to Ireland by Presbyterian Scots who settled here mainly in the 1600s. So it’s mainly Presbyterians in Ireland that follow this tradition though you do sometimes see other denominations doing it too.

6
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: Birth records
« on: Saturday 24 February 24 18:47 GMT (UK)  »
Yes births within the past 100 years are not accessible on-line. They are open to the public but with a couple of exceptions, you can't search them on-line. The exceptions are if you go to either GRONI or PRONI in Belfast in person. If that's not practical, then you can ring GRONI and pay them to search for you. There's a search fee for every 5 years, plus the cost of the certificate if one is found. You pay over the phone, by credit card. Can't be done by post or e-mail as you need to be on the phone to type in your credit card number.


7
Sligo / Re: Sligo Asylum
« on: Thursday 22 February 24 02:28 GMT (UK)  »
You could contact Sligo Council's Archivist to see if they know where the records are.

https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/County_Sligo_Archives_and_Libraries

Note that in some jurisdictions there is often a 100 years closure on this sort of information for privacy reasons. So not sure if records post 1924 will be open to the public.

8
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Tuesday 20 February 24 12:12 GMT (UK)  »
Don’t assume that the word deed only means title to property. It has a much wider meaning. The Registry of Deeds contains a variety of types of documents. All generically referred to as deeds. There are sales, assignments, mortgages, marriage settlements, wills, bills of discovery but the most common are leases. There are hundreds of thousands of leases, often for tenant farmers. It may be that the McCollum estate has no records but if any of their deeds were registered (it wasn’t compulsory and there was a fee) then a copy could still exist. Strictly speaking they are called memorials and are transcripts of the original documents, occasionally abbreviated here and there.

In the early years the main leases tend to be for major transactions but as the years go by you see smaller parcels of land recorded.

Ian Montgomery (a member of PRONI’s staff) has also compiled a list of 17th century leases for the Antrim Estate (D2977 collection). So that pre-dates the Registry of Deeds. There’s 3 references to John McCollum of Cloghcorr in 1678 and in 1681. No Taylors, so they would be sub-tenants as you say.

9
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Monday 19 February 24 16:48 GMT (UK)  »
If the Taylor in Aird was a farmer then there may be records in the Registry of Deeds. Bear in mind that there were often numerous transactions. Sub-letting bits of land, renewals, and so on. So several deeds for the same family may be in the records over a span of years.

Ancestors who were labourers or weavers are unlikely to be in any deeds though. And indeed probably not in any records at all in the 1600s and early 1700s. Their lives would mostly be lived below officialdom’s radar.

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