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Messages - Mofamily

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London and Middlesex / Re: John Herbert Palmer
« on: Thursday 02 December 21 16:18 GMT (UK)  »
Hi everyone.

What fantastic work!  I had seen the original 1939 census and noticed the amendments, but couldn't read the Mary Ann bit.  Now I see!

I had also seen the BMD entry for Florence Palmer and Henry G Day and didn't realise the significance of Mary A Mildenburger.

The coincidences are even closer.  You say Mary Ann Mildenburger was living at 9 Stanley Street, Newcastle in 1923.  That is in Elswick which is a few streets away from the last address of John Herbert Palmer when he lived in Elswick at 67 Greenhow Place (although Greenhow Place is no longer there).

It has to be them.  I suppose it was easier for Mary Ann to masquerade as Florence Edith Palmer as she probably wanted to appear as  Dorothy's natural mother, but who knows.

Thanks again.  It is greatly appreciated.


London and Middlesex / John Herbert Palmer
« on: Thursday 02 December 21 11:54 GMT (UK)  »
I am hoping someone could help.  I am trying to trace a John Herbert Palmer B: 1891 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.  The family story is that he left Newcastle-upon-Tyne following the death of his wife, Florence Edith (nee Daglish B: 1893/4 ) in 1922, leaving most of his children with relatives, but taking the younger daughter, Dorothy B: 1920 with him.  It is also said that he may have gone off with a lady friend neighbour and was not heard of again.

I have been trying to find him and I have come across a 1939 Census record of a John H Palmer B: 1891 living at Strode Road, Fulham.  He is living with a Florence E Palmer B: 1891 and Dorothy B: 1920.  Unfortunately, it does not say where they were born.  I was very drawn to this record because of the names, obviously; but Florence E was a problem.  Who is she?  Didn't she die!?!? Is it just a huge coincidence?

Again, unfortunately, it just says John H Palmer, so is it Herbert; and Florence E Palmer is it Edith?

There is other information written on re a further marriage for Florence E and a marriage for Dorothy (who seems to have married her neighbour, Stanley J Hutchings.

Very convoluted explanation, I know, but could anyone throw any light on these people?   Florence seems to have married a Mr Day and Dorothy a Mr Hutchings, but what happened to the John H Palmer living in Fulham and is it John Herbert?

Here's hoping.

Durham / Re: Second Opinion needed
« on: Sunday 27 June 21 17:12 BST (UK)  »
Hi Fiona.
Very interesting. Need to do more digging. I haven't done a DNA profile, but my cousin has, so will discuss it with her. Curiouser and curiouser. 🤔.

Durham / Re: Second Opinion needed
« on: Wednesday 23 June 21 11:33 BST (UK)  »
Hi Fiona

Welcome to Rootschat.  Sorry I didn't pick up your message earlier.  OH too quick on the delete e-mails button.  ::)

Anyway.  Are you related to Christopher Holburn?

In answer to your question, I am afraid I am not too sure.  I followed up a couple of possibilities and I have placed them on my "speculative tree".

As you can gather, I concentrated my research in the Hurworth-on-Tees area.  That is because on Christopher's Merchant Navy record it states born in Hurworth.  He was in fact Baptised at St Helens Church in Bishop Auckland which is not too far from Hurworth in the scheme of things.  It said his mother, Elizabeth, was from Morley.  At first I thought it was Yorkshire Morley, but found out that there is a village called Morley just a few miles from St Helens.  However, having looked at Parish records there were no Holburns (or other variations) to be found in any Parish in the area except Hurworth where there were quite a few so it was very positive.

I began looking for an Elizabeth Holburn assuming she was a young girl with an illegitimate child, but no joy.  I did, however, find two Elizabeth's who were "getting on a bit"  ;D.  The first was an Elizabeth Holbourn baptised on 25.10.1789 in Hurworth which would make her 31 when she had him. (the daughter of James and Eleanor - he was a Weaver, which I felt was relevant as Christopher's wife's father was a Woolcomer from Darlington so in the same industry).  The second Elizabeth was an Elizabeth Holbron baptised 5.10.1790 (the daughter of a Thomas and Elizabeth - profession not mentioned), which would make her 30 when she had him.

Following on, I found an Elizabeth Holbourn marrying a John Bell on 26.1.1822 in Hurworth.  Two years after Christopher was born.  (don't know which Elizabeth).  Now, John Bell was 49 when he married her and she was 34 and they were named as Spinster and Bachelor, so looked like a marriage on convenience to me (or maybe that's just me).  They had a daughter Susanna and when she was pregnant with their son, John, her husband died aged 55 in 1828.

Then, in the Hurworth records there is a entry for an Elizabeth Bell marrying a William Rate (Rait) in 1830.  They had a daughter called Elizabeth and a son William, but on the Census in 1851 she was named as a Widow working as a Charwoman with her daughter Elizabeth (factory worker) in Clay Row, Darlington.  She died in 1859 Brunswick Street Darlington and her age corresponded with either of the Elizabeth's I began with.

Very convoluted I know, and purely speculative.

Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.  Let me know how you are related.


Europe / Re: Translation from German to English please
« on: Sunday 27 December 20 12:12 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Dave

Yes thanks.  Got is sorted out back in the day via a personal message.

Thanks anyway.


Monmouthshire / Re: Abertillary Football Club 1920s
« on: Sunday 27 September 20 14:25 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Stoob for your post.

It is great to know it wasn't just a family story and he did indeed play for the club.  I see he was an inside forward.

George Holborn got a DCM and MM during the first world war.

I have been looking to see if I could find a photo of the team at that time, but so far no luck.

I will keep on trying.

Thanks again

Durham / Re: Bishopwearmouth cemetery
« on: Sunday 16 August 20 09:29 BST (UK)  »

Durham / Re: Bishopwearmouth cemetery
« on: Saturday 15 August 20 18:42 BST (UK)  »
Yes Spelk - They were married on the 24 September 1948 as I have a copy of the marriage record.  They were married at The Parish Church in the Parish of Sunderland, but don't know which Church that would be.


Durham / Re: Bishopwearmouth cemetery
« on: Saturday 15 August 20 14:20 BST (UK)  »

Thanks everyone for your great input.

I didn't know Christopher was a Baptist thought he was Methodist, but that must be the reason for unconsecrated ground, being nonconformist. Looking at the name of the Vicar who performed the ceremony was a great idea.  I have looked at the Vicar for Elizabeth and he was a Rev Johnson Bailey, Vicar of Pallion and he was C of E, hence the consecrated ground I presume.  Funny they were two different denominations.  Maybe that was why the rest of the family became Methodists?

The photo on Ancestery is indeed it.  The lady is the relly who sent it to me.  She doesn't know about the other grave plot yet.

Got quite excited when Jon mentioned two others in the same plot as Christopher.  Assumed that meant relatives, but they are not related at all.  Must be the way the plots are worked out.

Boo, it is a great thought about the gravestone being put up later.  They did have a daughter who became relatively well off.  Lived at The Westlands which I understand was quite well to do at the time.  She and her husband are buried at the Cemetery and their names appear on the Ward Plan on the edge (Davis) so I presume it must be a good gravestone too.

Once again, thanks for your input.  Food for thought.


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