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Messages - elricks

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Norfolk Resources & Offers / Re: BASE of Pockthorpe, Norwich
« on: Saturday 27 November 21 11:37 GMT (UK)  »
Well that got me intrigued enough to google it.  This fits in with the idea of learning something new every day. Thank :o you

Norfolk Resources & Offers / BASE of Pockthorpe, Norwich
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 03:11 GMT (UK)  »
For many years I have had a 'brick wall', Samuel BASE who married Jane WINTER in St Edmund's 1778. They had many children in various Norwich parishes 1780-1803.

Over the years I collected other BASE people who had events in Norwich without being able to tie them together.

Recently I solved the issue.  The people who were using the name BASE in Pockthorpe Norwich changed their name from BEAST.  I can tie this down quite well, as a child Elizabeth was Chr as BEAST in 1770 and was buried as BASE in 1771.  This is NOT my only evidence but is the bit that informs me of the date.

Prior to 1770 there were very few people named BASE in Pockthorpe, but many named BEAST (sometimes transcribed in error as BOAST).  After 1770, BEAST disappears from the records, and BASE becomes common.  I have tied 4 BASE men who 'appeared from nowhere' at marriage, to BEAST Chr in the given name and age at death.

I have been unable to understand why this happened, but as the events are almost all in Pockthorpe, and the change is sudden, the parson must have (1) been aware of and (2) agreed with the change.  I have paged through the PR, just to confirm there are no notes by the parson, and to see if maybe a new parson arrived.  No notes, and the parson remained the same throughout.  Or I should say the hand writing remained the same, it could be that of the parish Clerk.

If anyone wants I can post specific details, just ask. People with mystery BASE people in Norwich, born before (say) 1775, please post names.....

Norfolk / Re: Surnames: Spinks, Todd, Base
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 02:30 GMT (UK)  »
In 1875, Rachael had banns read in Pockthorpe.  The record has been marked as 'cancelled'.  The partner is George.

In dec qtr 1875 there is a marriage registration to George ZIPFEL or TIPFEL of TIPPEL (FREEBDM transcription).

In 1876 and 1878, there are 2 birth registrations in Norwich. Herbert William and George.

In 1881 Elizabeth is with husband George and son George, Norwich St Paul.

In 1882 George was found guilty of Larceny and was imprisoned for 3 months - First name(s)   George
Last name   Zipfel
Year   1882
Session date   27 Jun 1882
Court   The Guild Hall, Norwich
Archive   The National Archives
Source   Home Office: Criminal Registers, England And Wales, 1805-1892
Series   HO27

In 1884 George was given 12 months for a similar offence
First name(s)   George
Last name   Zipfel
Year   1884
Session date   07 Feb 1884
Court   Norwich
Archive   The National Archives
Source   Home Office: Criminal Registers, England And Wales, 1805-1892
Series   HO27

The son George was in Boys Home, St Faiths Lane, in 1891, aged 13

Then things take a turn for the better for Rachael (presumably)
In 1901 she and George are together with a daughter Alice born 1885 in Norwich, and a brother of George's named Matthew.  Both men are jobbing watchakers. Rachael is a monthly nurse

Son George Arthur ZIPFEL - as named in the Army papers -
Attested into the Norfolk Regiment 1894

BACKTRACK to Rachael 1891. She is with 2 children at the same address as she was in 1901.  Name transcribed as SIPPEL. Shows a married, husband not at the same address.

1911 Census has George as a married man in the Workhouse. aged 68 formerly a watchmaker.

In conclusion I think the 'wrong' partner has been chosen from the options given in the GRO index

Thanks David. I was surprised to see the word 'download'. Last time I looked the only way to purchase something was on a CD which was delivered via post.  I also get quite confused by the sectioning into deaneries, I was never sure I am asking for the right thing. I am always more inclined to spend when the access is instantaneous. I will have a good look around the suffolk site.

Thanks Annette and Kay.  I have births as follows:
* James 1805 Yoxford. He died an infant, no Chr but a death of an infant.
* James 1807 Yoxford. No Chr but date and place of birth is from census.  Fits in with naming customs as well as place.  He married and had at least 12 children in Dennington.

* William 1813 Yoxford. He married twice. First wife produced 14 children.  Second wife (my blood cousin) produced 1.  All the births are recorded on an embroidered sampler. William was married to that second wife (Hepzibah Elizabeth LINCOLN) 23 years before he died. Hepzibah is the granddaughter of a man (Anthony EVERETT) with a similar but more 'vigerous' timeline.

Anthony married his second wife when he was 62. She was somewhat younger, at 21. She was also the niece of his previous wife. They were married for 23 years before Anthony died. They had 12 children, the last born when Anthony was 82.

The rest of the children match your posting. I am hoping someone has access to the actual PR in case there are further details available. I will happily pay for a CD (if Suffolk Society has done one) once I 'know' there is something worth looking at.

I also have as a possible son/cousin, John BANTHORPE who was born around 1791 in Peasenhall. This man was in Dennington by 1819 when he married Mary Ann CUNNINGHAM

He had 8 children in Dennington. I am still working on this aspect, currently recording all BANTHORP* I can find in the area, using census etc.

Even though the family only link into mine once (Rosa BANTHORPE 2c3r), they make other marriage connections with other parts of my family.

Suffolk Lookup Requests / Dennington Suffolk PR look up request for BANTHORPE please
« on: Sunday 24 October 21 01:16 BST (UK)  »
James BANTHORPE married Sarah CALVER - possibly 12th Oct 1804 in Huntingfield. Probably living in Dennington 1817. Not found in Dennington in any census.

Any details of entries for BANTHORPE in Dennington PR will be most appreciated.

Children include:

James 1807, census birthplace is Yoxford. Married to Pheobe, had children in Dennington. died 1871 Dennington (from NBI)

William 1813, Chr Yoxford 17th March 1813 (Family Search). Married Mary Ann BROWN in Dennington. 14 children born in Saxlingham. Married 2nd Hepzibah Elizabeth LINCOLN 1879, 1 daughter Rosa born 1880 in Saxlingham Nethergate.  I have most of the details of this family. Hepzibah and I are cousins.

Maria 1817, born Dennington according to 1851 census. Married THOMPSON, lived in Baddington.

A possible child of James, born before he married Sarah, is John. John's birthplace from census is Peasenhall. Approx date is 1791.  John married Mary Ann, and had at least 4 children in Dennington 1826-1839. Died 1876 Dennington (from NBI)

I have not found the Dennington PR on any of my usual places. If it exists on line, could you point me to it.

ADDED LATER--------------- (sorry for the length of this. It seemed appropriate to add and not make a new posting. If an admin thinks it better to split, I will do so)

I am ALSO specifically interested in a marriage record for Elizabeth FISK and James BANTHORPE in 1841.

Transcription from FindMyPast (no original available)

Record ID   R_851166252/2
First name(s)   Elizabeth
Last name   Fisk
Spouse's father's first name(s)   William
Spouse's father's last name   Eighteen
Marriage year    1841
Residence   Dennington, Suffolk, England
Marriage date    24 September 1841
County   Suffolk
Marriage place   Dennington
Country   England
Father's first name(s)   Robert
Record set   England Marriages 1538-1973
Father's last name   Burroughs
Category   Life Events (BDMs)
Spouse's first name(s)   James Banthorpe
Subcategory   Parish Marriages
Spouse's last name   Eighteen
Collections from   England, Great Britain
England Marriages 1538-1973   EnglandMarriages1538-1973ElizabethFiskUSE full record

James who was married to Sarah CALVER was widowed in 1840, so a reasonable candidate for the groom.  You will notice mention of the family name EIGHTEEN, which is obviously incorrect.  This could be the age of the bride and/or groom.  Counter to this, Elizabeth FISK's father's name is BURROUGHS, making her likely to have been a widow, and eighteen is rather young.

James and Elizabeth not found in Dennington 1851 (so far, still looking).

A very good chance the bride is the woman who was 45 in 1841, in the same house in Dennington as William BANTHORPE who was 25.  William is the son of James, the widower of Sarah

Sussex Lookup Requests / Re: Janet Penman Stewart
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 23:58 GMT (UK)  »
How about Janet P STEWART who married EGAN in West Ham Dec qtr 1924.  Husband was Frederick A EGAN.

Possible children are: Beryl H Mar qtr 1925 and Colin F Sep qtr 1928, both in West Ham.

Beryl may have married SAUNDERS in Romford 1951

Colin may have married HISCOCK in West Ham 1966

This family in 1939 are:  Janet P born 31st July 1897, Frederick A born 8th Sept 1897, a timber merchant working for Himself.

A child is with them Colin Ti, born 24th July 1928.

There is 1 hidden record, and in the way this is numbered I would say a child older then Colin.

The address as transcribed is - 28 Hazel Rise, Romford, Hornchurch U.D., Essex, England.

From all the clues, I would say I am certain that the 1939 family is the one, but of course there is no proof the wife is the STEWART you are looking for. I think though I found proof for you.

GRO death recorded as Janet Penman EGAN - Sep qtr 1976
Worthing RD , West Sussex
Volume:   18
Page:   2025
date of birth 31 July 1897

It is possible using free BMD to work out children of the marriages. Find My Past (and possibly other subscription sites) have electoral rolls up to about 2019 that contain names and ages of residents, and full addresses. Sometimes it is possible to work out a likely person to write to.

Norfolk / Re: Bramerton Parish Registers
« on: Tuesday 23 June 20 21:51 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, I was aware of the index on Freereg. It is the actual scans I am after.  Family Search wiki says Family Search has them - within the Norfolk Parish Register films they made accessible on line many years ago, but this parish is not in the list.

Norfolk / Re: Culling - Yelverton, Norfolk
« on: Monday 22 June 20 14:56 BST (UK)  »
Fanny is a cousin of mine.  She was Chr in Yelverton 7th April 1833.  She had an interesting life. What follows is my take on what the records tell me (but I could be wrong).

Her mother was Hannah CULLING. who was 20 when she was born. I have not found any information on who her father was, but looking for someone named LAYTON in the vacinity 9 mionths prior to her birth could well bear fruit.  I have not done this.

In 1850 Hannah was Baptised as an adult) in St Marylebone. She married 1 month later, so I think we can assume she was Baptised so she could marry in the church. Fanny was a witness at the marriage. As far as I know, Hannah and husband John George HEDLEY did not have any children.

Fanny was a live in pupil at the Elm Tree Private School in 1851

She had 2 children with Josiah James GREEN in 1857 and 1859, Named James Green CULLING and Josiah Green CULLING.

In 1861 she  was with Ann E LYANTEY a widow aged 53 born in Yelverton who was a lodging housekeeper.  Ann was the mother of the illegitimate Cornelius CULLING and he is the father of the 2 boys with her. There are also 6 French egg merchants listed as lodgers, and Fanny Layton CULLING is a governess who is a visitor, but who must surely be a distant relative

More Green CULLING children were born 1862, 1863, The Fanny died of TB in 1867.

This quote is from a very old message on a board - An old message from cousin connect says -    I am looking for information about my great-great-great grandmother, Fanny Layton Culling, who was living in east London in the 1860s. She gave birth to my great-great grandfather Charles Winchester Green Culling, later known as Charles Winchester Giesen, in January 1862. Winchester was the name of the street where Charles was born. Fanny had another child, Ada Ann Green Culling, in August 1863. Both children seem to have been brought up by their grandmother, Ann Green. Where did Fanny come from? What happened to her after Ada was born?

I have this - Charles Winchester Green Culling was born 25 January 1862, the illegitimate son of Frances or Fanny Layton Culling. He was born in Mile End Old Town, London. Fanny was baptised in Yelverton, Norfolk, in 1832. She had two older sons, James Green Culling and Josiah Green Culling, and a daughter, Ada Anne Green Culling, born August 1863.

Charles and Ada were adopted, Charles at least be the GEISEN family. Charles' name was changed to Charles Winchester Giesen, but Ada's name remained the same.

William Giesen died accidentally in 1875 after a fall in which he fractured his skull. I think after that Martha gave up the children and Charles and Ada were brought up by Ann Green. They were living with her in 1881, and Ada committed suicide in June 1881.


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