RootsChat.Com

Had one more try (seeing as I can't sleep anyway) and found George and family in 1891 indexed as Veller but reads (to me) Villes on the image.  Living in Mountain Ash.  No Elizabeth BUT there was an Isaac Jones visiting  in the household.   Remembering that I found an Elizabeth Villias visiting in the household of an Isaac Jones  I would guess that the Isaac Jones in the George Villis household was the grandfather of Elizabeth (father in law of George) and on census night she was staying with her Uncle (mothers brother) who was named after his father. 

Obviously you need to confirm things but I would say that this is almost certainly the family of the Elizabeth Vellis you located in the 1901 census.

I'm too tired to transcribe the records tonight - but if you don't have access to the 1891 census let me know and I'll do so for you another time. 

Regards

Caroline

Hi AK

I checked for you.... it appears to read Samuel Britton.  However William Winser's last names appears to be CARNE rather than CAME, but the date and other information all matched so it has to be the correct marriage.

Regards

Caro

Hi Jonathan

I am still looking.... I managed to rule out the 1861 Cock family though.

I tried a sideways move and I've managed to make contact with descendants of the eldest son of Charles Crock (who was also called Charles Crock).  It was through Roots Chat that I achieved this as Charles Crock Junior emigrated to South Africa circa 1910.  I left a message on the South Africa board and a roots chatter in South Africa recognised the name Crock and made a telephone call to some people by that name in Johannesburg and put me in touch with some distant cousins.  Through them I have learned that it's probable that Charles Crock was not born with the name Crock.  Unfortunately none of them know when, or why he changed his name... nor do they know what he changed it from.  His original name might have been "Hartley or Hatch or something like that". 


The possible name change is not really surprising as it explains why I've been unable to find him prior to the 1881 census (although he was definitely calling himself Crock from at least 1875 when his first child was born).  It might well also explain why he and his wife Sarah didn't actually marry until after the births of 6 of their 7 children - despite the fact that Sarah was calling herself by the name Crock (she appears on the 1881 census as Crock and registers the births of her children under the name Crock, formerly Gray).  I suspect that Charles changed his name to avoid being found, maybe by a wife he abandoned or maybe because of something else.

Incidently I have their original marriage certificate, the one handed to them at the time of their marriage and it has been falsified - they changed the year and their ages to make it look like they married 10 years before they actually did..... at least I presume it was them that made the alterations, although realistically it could have been their son (my great grandfather) or one of his siblings that altered it in an attempt to disguise the fact that his/her parents married somewhat late!

Still, never give up.... I've only been looking for him for just over 20 years... early days yet ;-)

Regards

Caroline

Could the county possibly be Lancashire?  Written as Lankshire.

Another thought, maybe the town actually begins with A.  It's definitely written with an H but just as "H's" are often dropped they are also sometimes added on.

Caro