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Messages - Kathiesummers

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Europe / Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« on: Tuesday 02 August 11 19:49 BST (UK)  »
Histres, you are a complete star!!    :-*

The marriages in London (how amazing that those are recorded!) and the Kramer connection mean that it's definitely 'my' Frederick EBERT.  And to think that only a few weeks ago, all I knew was that he was most probably German!

Europe / Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« on: Friday 17 June 11 19:08 BST (UK)  »
Hi Histres

No, I haven't come across Beyer or Friedrich, but I did find some pork butcher Kramers living in Bradford in the mid 1800s, and I suspect they were related to the Sheffield Kramers.  Hiller and Lang are the other names I have come across.

I haven't found a Charles Kramer who was a tea dealer, only pork butchers (father b1819 in germany, son b1850 in Sheffield).  My attention was drawn to the Kramers because I thought they might help with my Ebert ancestors - Frederick Kramer (pork butcher) married Mary Ann Ebert (daughter of Frederick Ebert) in 1844 in Sheffield, and John Christian Kramer occupied the same butchers shop at 1 Pinstone Street that Frederick Ebert previously occupied.  Also, John Christian Kramer's wife was born in Westminster at around the same time that Frederick Ebert lived in Westminster.  I suspect John Christian Kramer and Frederick Kramer were brothers, maybe Charles too.

I've searched the Baden-Wurtemmburg land records that are online and have found reference to a Johann Michael Ebert as a miller in Hurden near Bachlingen in about 1795, and reference to a divorce application by Friedrich Ebert of Hurden in 1801. As 'my' Frederick Ebert married in Westminster in 1805, this could possibly be him, and I thought I had managed to order a copy of the document through the website - but my German is not very good and I find the site quite confusing - and they didn't ask for any money, so I'm not surprised that nothing has arrived.  ::)

I've attached the drawing of Pinstone Street below - I think No 1 would be the 2nd shop from the left.  Charles Kramer later had a shop at 5 Pinstone Street.  Yes please I would like to see the Kramer pictures, even though they are not directly linked to me.


Europe / Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« on: Monday 23 May 11 22:21 BST (UK)  »
Oh wow, that's fantastic, thank you so much.  I had almost given up on this line.  It doesn't surprise me that Frederick had another first name - Johan Michael seem's to have mainly used Michael, and the Kramers also had a habit of dropping their first names.

(John) Michael Ebert was in Sheffield at least by 1801 as his son was buried there aged 3.  (Christian) Frederick Ebert had children in London in 1815 & 1817, but appears in Sheffield in 1822 Baines directory

Sadly I have no photos from my dad's family - but there a drawing on Ancestry of Pinstone Street in 1840 - I will upload & send to you when I can.

Europe / Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« on: Monday 23 May 11 18:53 BST (UK)  »
Hi - if anybody has a copy of either the "German Pork Butchers in Britain" book by Sue Gibbons, or the article "Germans in Sheffield 1817-1918" by G Newton, I'd really appreciate knowing if there are any references to the Ebert or Kramer families.  I can't find the article online as I don't have an ATHENS login.

My ancestor Frederick Ebert (born c1773) & his wife Martha moved to Sheffield from London around 1820, where a John Michael Ebert was already living - both Frederick & John Michael were pork butchers, and one daughter married Frederick Kramer, born Germany c1810, also a pork butcher.  I'm guessing the Eberts were German too, but have nothing concrete.

I've learned so much today about the migrations form Wurttemburg, thanks!

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