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Messages - lukeedward

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 10
1
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Friday 02 December 22 09:43 GMT (UK)  »
Hi

Just a quick update. I now have the three wedding certificates for Sophia Crowther. 1908 to Morris Gross. 1913 to William Beeby Lister and 1917 To Benjamin William Mawl Morris in New Zealand.
NZ certificate shows her birth place as York. Parents as Samuel and Esther and Samuels occupation as railway official. Interestingly all three certificates show her as being a spinster. Obviously a case of selective amnesia

Luke Edward

2
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Thursday 24 November 22 13:15 GMT (UK)  »
From birth cert.

Sophia Crowther born 27th April 1886 Saddleworth. Sub District of Uppermill in the County of York
Address looks like Dobcross Saddleworth.
Interestingly father Sam is shown as a police officer but in 1901 census as a labourer in an iron works
I am now of the opinion that the marriage of Morris and Sophia ended about 1911/12. He claimed to be a widower and she a spinster so that they could continue with their lives. it sounds as untruths in those days were quite common, and checks on information supplied hardly ever checked. I believe Sophia married William Beeby Lister in 1913 and later Sophia Lester nee Crowther married Benjamin Morris in 1917 in New Zealand (found marriage in New Zealand records). Benjamin died 1955.
The entry in Newspaper Index cards is interesting. Dont know if contact was ever made with Sophia Morris

Thank you to everyone who has tried to help me. I think I have established as much as I am likely to get. Morris remarried in 1919 and the marriage was deemed legal. so thats it .

Luke Edward

3
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Wednesday 16 November 22 16:12 GMT (UK)  »
birth cert applied for. keeping GRO in business

luke edward

4
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Wednesday 16 November 22 11:39 GMT (UK)  »
I have got loads of certificates but unfortunately not Sophia's birth certificate. I have kept the GRO in business with all the certificates i have ordered over the years.
luke edward

5
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Wednesday 16 November 22 10:05 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for all replies.
Morris gross simelman is my wifes grandfather. So i know all about him and about sophia up to 1911.
My wife has an aunt who is in her 90's. the daughter of morris and his second wife. a few years ago when she was visiting she saw her parents wedding certificate showing her father was a widower. She got so agitated that we had to hide the wedding certificate. the conclusion was either that she never knew her father had been married before or that she did know and that we had uncovered a family secret. i.e that her father was not a widower. there is no one else to ask.
it is a mystery which i would like to resolve. The implications of him not being a widower could be mind blowing.
This is why I would like to trace relatives of sophia to see if any of them know what happened to her

luke edward

6
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Tuesday 15 November 22 16:51 GMT (UK)  »
Sophia married morris gross or morris simelman. dont think she was ever sophia morris. Been researching this for 10 years. which is why i thought if i could find some relatives they might know what happened

luke edward

7
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Tuesday 15 November 22 14:54 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks everyone. the plot thickens

as suggested checked 1921 but this shows birthplace as batley (25 miles from Saddleworth). So gut feeling this is not her. Also she is shown as spinster. Is she bending the truth like Morris who said he was a widower. in 1921 she has 2 children 15 and 11.

Heywood. I wasn't aware of Newspaper Index Cards. this appears to be on ancestry whereas i tend to use find my past. As I said gut feeling not right Sophia Crowther. do we know whether any of them contacted the Public Trustee office

Thanks again

luke edward

8
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Tuesday 15 November 22 14:09 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for that. it is a possibility but i have found no trace of her using crowther gross or simelman names after 1911. As i mentioned the second marriage shows Morris as a widower. I am wondering if this was so he could get married a second time. As i have got nowhere with this after 10 years, i thought i would try and track down some of sophia's relatives to see if any of them might know what happened to her

luke edward

9
Lancashire / Re: descendants of crowther family who in 1901 census lived in Oldham
« on: Tuesday 15 November 22 13:30 GMT (UK)  »
had a go at modify. hope acceptable now

luke edward

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