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Messages - estiman

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1
Graveyards and Gravestones / Brompton cemetery private grave reference numbers
« on: Sunday 18 July 21 16:47 BST (UK)  »
Hi all,
I have several ancestors buried in the Brompton cemetery. I have specific grave references for 2 private graves. The first holds 6 people of whom 2 are ancestors (buried 1842 and 1843). Grave reference is AC 138.0 by 155.6. The Brompton pdf map showing the different quadrants by letter reference gives me the general location and the footnote explains how to use the numbers: starting in the N.E. corner the first figure is North to South and the second is East to West. But the note does not say what the numbers represent. If they are feet then 155.6 is a very precise figure and would make that location some 52 yards, which would place it in the next quadrant (AD).
The other (1859) ancestor's grave reference is aH 106.6 by 35.0, that is c.35 by 11.6 yards. This is quite a small quadrant.
If you use the Brompton site's grave locater on their map (a small red marker) then it puts both graves in entirely different, adjacent, quadrants not the ones given above.
Much of the cemetery is now untended and overgrown, which makes any search even more difficult.
Hopefully one of you has already come across (and solved?) this problem.

2
Hi Coombs,
Thanks for your inputs. I did a 1851 street search on FindMyPast and there are 20 properties listed under Winks Buildings, Turks Row. Still don't know how to confirm ownership, though. However, given the Battersea development conclusions, I'm pretty sure it was the same builder - William Winks.

Do you have the references for the typhus death and the donkey accident?

Cheers


3
Hi again Sandblown. Below is the summary of what I conclude and you will see that you and I agree about James the carpenter (and yes he was convicted of larceny in 1811)

So, the possible anomalies/ niggles are:
•   The birth date of 1788 in the OU thesis (no source) in the context of building evidence in 1848. William was born in 1795.  We know there can be errors with births - however, 1788 corresponds to the birth of William’s brother James.
•   Profession as carpenter in OU thesis, 1848. There no evidence at all that he was a carpenter, unlike his brother James, who was a carpenter.
•   The 1841 court case showing William to be an established builder and a man of substance; the houses in Denby (Denbeigh?) Street not found on FindMyPast street search; no evidence that partner was George Bass
•   Absence of surveyors’ reports before 1846. Explanation is that the first district surveyors for suburban areas were appointed in 1845
•   The 1859 probate showing assets of below £200, strange for a successful builder living in one of the houses he built in Danvers Street
Possible explanations:
•   William was operating 2 professions side by side, maintaining the bakery side pending take over by his eldest son, age 22 in 1841.
•   The OU thesis reference to George Bass’ partner, William Winks, a carpenter born 1788 may, in fact, refer to William’s brother James, born 1788, a carpenter.
•   Conclusion to initial query: given the name of the street and given the evidence for Winks Buildings Battersea (see previous post), I suspect (and regret) that William Winks was almost certainly the builder responsible for the insalubrious Winks Buildings.

So, thanks a lot for your productive input, Sandblown - and thanks too ShaunJ for the 'sanitary' references and the pointer to Battersea

4
The Common Room / Re: How to find the owner of buildings and the origin of a street name
« on: Saturday 27 February 21 22:32 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Sandblown - well done! You spotted that there were 20 houses in the Battersea version of Winks Buildings. So, I had another look at the 1851 census. Before I had just seen the High Street as a neighbouring road. This time I looked further and found 'Square' = Battersea Square, which is still by Battersea High Street on Google Maps. I then checked on the 1862 Stanford map of London...and there, by Battersea Square, just off the High Street is Crescent Place.... AKA Winks Buildings in the 1851 census!
I have more but it's late so I'll get back to you tomorrow....and thanks for your inputs!!

5
The Common Room / Re: How to find the owner of buildings and the origin of a street name
« on: Saturday 27 February 21 18:27 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, the Winks Buildings in question was at the Lower Sloane Street end.

6
The Common Room / Re: How to find the owner of buildings and the origin of a street name
« on: Saturday 27 February 21 12:54 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Sandblown.
I had seen that OU thesis already but missed the 1834 reference. Well spotted. I am currently struggling with the facts that seem to cross-reference alongside the anomalies that don't.
I'll get back to you with my thoughts.
Thanks again
PS I think the "Other Occupations" referred to in the thesis refer to 'industry' in Battersea streets covered by the study, rather than property speculators. I'll be very happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

7
Well spotted, Sandblown. Thanks for that.
William Winks was, indeed, a builder but, to my knowledge, only after c1846. Up until then he had been a baker (!) - shown on children's baptisms (up to 1844) and 1841 census. The first confirmed records I have of him as a builder are in 1847 (daughter's marriage) and the surveyors reports for Chelsea (1846). The first work that appears there is a minor one: "pulling down and rebuilding external wall” in Lower Church Street, which is next to Danvers Street. It is in the latter that he undertakes his biggest project - 12 houses that are still there. In fact he will reside and die there. There are other references e.g. a court case for theft from a builder named William Winks in 1841. He does give his address in Royal Hospital Row, which would confirm him as the same but, of course, this conflicts with the records as a baker. Also, the Winks Buildings existed before 1834 and were, by all accounts,  of an extremely poor standard, while the Danvers Street houses are of high quality. There is reference to work being done in Battersea, in partnership with a George Bass, but in 1848.
You mention work as a builder in the 1830's. If you have found something to that effect could you give me the reference/link?
Cheers

8
Fascinating (and appalling) description of the living conditions, ShaunJ. Thanks. I'd really love to know who the owner was - hope he wasn't one of mine!!!
Do you have the link for the Battersea report?

9
[There's a Reference to a Mr Browne, Architect of Winks Buildings, in the above link.
[/quote]
Thanks for the link, Sandblown...Winks Buildings certainly get around! Now there's a Canadian connection... but I still feel it's doubtful, as Winks is not an uncommon name. Also the Canadian version is quoted as a 'fine block', while the Chelsea version was apparently "pestilential" - see ShaunJ's post.
Cheers

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