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Messages - Clarkey500

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: 1861 Census Occupation
« on: Sunday 21 April 24 12:57 BST (UK)  »
Have a search on the google books webpage:~  it sometimes brings interesting or unknown stuff which leads on to stepping stones to new leads on any ancestry genealogical research.

https://books.google.co.uk/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also try https://www.genuki.org.uk/

Thank you - you're right - I usually do.

You can find some information even in health reports that may not mention a relative, but they can certainly help explain a few things going on - especially epidemics etc.

4
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: 1861 Census Occupation
« on: Saturday 20 April 24 13:59 BST (UK)  »
Possibly
Prim.ve Meth.d Local Preacher
(Primitive Methodist)

Boo

I hadn't thought of that - thank you. That would make sense - I can see that now.

Originally, I had thought it started with a P before being side-tracked by seeing a similarly formed F and a different P. However, the enumerator does seem to vary other letters.

5
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / 1861 Census Occupation
« on: Saturday 20 April 24 13:49 BST (UK)  »
Hello,

I was hoping some keen-eyed people may be able to help me.

I have come across the attached occupation for Jacob Theobalds on the 1861 Census. He is living in Watchfield, Berkshire. Piece: 727; Folio: 26a; Page 9.
Ancestry link: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/8195959:8767

The first part is 'Ag. lab' which is fairly standard.

The next three words are proving a problem. They look like: Fuir he meoh
The first letter looks like the F the enumerator writes a few pages along.

The final two words look to be 'local preacher'.

Has anyone got any ideas for the middle 3 words?

6
Surrey / Re: May Dorothy Collins, born in 1900
« on: Saturday 14 October 23 15:46 BST (UK)  »
What about descendants of Thomas' sister Minnie COLLINS who married Albert SMITH?  Maud gave their address, 41 Bath Road, when she married in 1918 so presumedly she was living with them at time.  If Thomas is also May's father then Minnie's descendants should match a bit too.

Debra  :)

Yes, you're right that's a possibility too. Any relation to Thomas could be useful.

I just thought that the closer the match the more interest a DNA match would have with this family - enough to stumble across this thread. Of course any descendant of Thomas's parents (John Collins and Elizabeth Rebecca Stokes) could stumble across the thread in their research too. Hopefully, someone in the family has taken an AncestryDNA* test and can help us out.

*I say AncestryDNA as that is where a lot of descendants of May have tested - including one of her daughters.

7
Surrey / Re: May Dorothy Collins, born in 1900
« on: Tuesday 10 October 23 19:47 BST (UK)  »
Are these the births you mean  :-\

Births Sep qtr 1900 
COLLINS    Female        Croydon    2a   333   
ECCLES    Female        Croydon    2a   333

Yes, that's the one that was given to May.

It turns out that it was the wrong birth record.

8
Surrey / Re: May Dorothy Collins, born in 1900
« on: Tuesday 10 October 23 06:55 BST (UK)  »
My theory is that May's parents are (at least on paper) Thomas John Collins (this could need looking into) and Florence Eliza Steer. There is a birth record for this as Florence May Collins.

I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly.

COLLINS, FLORENCE  MAY
Mother's maiden surname: STEER     
GRO Reference: 1900  S Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 778

The following is the birth that is said to be that of May Dorothy ECCLES/COLLINS.

ECCLES, (no first name)
No mother's maiden surname
GRO Reference: 1900  S Quarter in CROYDON  Volume 02A  Page 333

There is a comment on an Ancestry tree that says...

"We have a copy of her birth certificate. She was born at Laurel Bank, Manor Road, Wallington (her father's address). She was registered without a name and her BMD says Female Eccles and another says Female Collins. She was also registered as having died."

I haven't seen the birth cert but I assume that they mean that it is noted that the child was deceased by the time the birth was registered.  If this is the case I can't understand why anyone would think it was the birth cert for May Dorothy.

Death

COLLINS, No first name
Aged under 12 months
GRO Reference: 1900  S Quarter in CROYDON  Volume 02A  Page 178

Debra  :)

At some point as an adult, May applied for her birth certificate with the little information that she had (long before digital records). As she was very young when she was left at the workhouse, she probably remembered very little.

In the workhouse records, she very quickly dropped the Florence part of her name which she seems to have forgotten and used May. She seems to know that she was born in August. She may also have remembered uncertainty around her birth. She also picks up the name Dorothy from somewhere.

As the person tasked with finding the birth record only had:
- May Dorothy Collins
- born mid-August 1900
- born London (area)

They couldn't find a matching birth, so then looked for the unnamed birth records and found one that roughly matched the above information.

They then didn't check to see whether that child could have died - which she unfortunately did.

The Florence May Collins birth you have there is the right one. I do have the digital copy of it.

I still have some level of doubt with Thomas John Collins as he was a soldier who fought in the Boer War. Looking into the history of his regiment, he sailed for South Africa on the 19th October 1899.

Florence May Collins was born on the 11th August 1900 which means she was very overdue or not Thomas's.

Also, using DNA of May's daughter, the professional genealogist could not find matches to Thomas Collins. This could be because nobody has tested or that Thomas is not the father.

Thomas does state on his WW1 records that his next of kin is his daughter Maud (living at the same address as him). Interestingly, Maud was born before the marriage of Thomas John Collins and Florence Eliza Steer, but he does acknowledge her as his daughter.

Hopefully, a descendant of Thomas Collins and Frances Jessup, will see this and confirm through DNA matches whether May's daughter comes up as a DNA match on AncestryDNA.

I hope this helps! ;D

9
Surrey / Re: May Dorothy Collins, born in 1900
« on: Monday 09 October 23 20:23 BST (UK)  »
Just to add an update, during the summer, I came up with a new theory. I shared this with the family and a professional family historian hired by the family has agreed with it. There are records going along with this that I won't mention to make it succinct for anyone interested.

My theory is that May's parents are (at least on paper) Thomas John Collins (this could need looking into) and Florence Eliza Steer. There is a birth record for this as Florence May Collins. This is because my family have strong DNA relationships to the Steer family and also the descendants of May Dorothy Collins as well as the shared matches aligning. From these DNA matches, we can identify records.

Now, the part about Albert Collins (the reputed father) going to fight in the Boer War and coming back to find a baby that wasn't his is possible - just that Albert was actually Thomas John Collins.

Thomas is in South Africa at the time of the 1901 Census, so the household back in London includes
Florence Eliza Collins and daughters Maud and May. Descendants of Maud do match descendants of May highly, but also to my family. However, by 1904, they are in the workhouse and subsequently the census record near to the start of the thread is correct.

My theory is that Florence Eliza ran off to Kent, changed her name to Mary and had a child with Joseph Yielding (who died before the birth of the child) and then 5 more children with Thomas Smith (my family). This is certainly what the DNA evidence suggests.

Thomas John Collins did return to London and get in contact with his daughter Maud Collins, but not May. He did go on to build a family with a Frances May Jessup. Hopefully, a descendant of them will read this and say that they have done a DNA test. If they do not match the family of May Collins, then we know that Thomas John Collins was not May's father; if they do, then it confirms the father.

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