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Messages - Gilby

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Antrim / Re: DICKEY family from Ballyclare Co Antrim?
« on: Saturday 10 February 24 20:30 GMT (UK)  »
Hi.  Welcome to Rootschat.

There were a few Dickey families in the Ballyclare area.  Do you know what age William and Eliza were?  Can you give us a list of their children and their approximate dates of births? 

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Sunday 14 January 24 17:18 GMT (UK)  »
The 1911 census record for Ellen Nevin shows 4 children born and 3 alive. The two children listed with Ellen and John Nevin were his children born after they married in 1901. So it looks like one of Ellen's two children Sarah and Robert Bryson  born before 1901 was still alive in 1911. I can see one Sarah Bryson aged 14 listed as a visitor in Owensland in 1911 who would be a possibility.

Thanks.  I’d miss-read “Nivin” as “Nixon” the other day for some reason.  The child who had died by 1911 was John James Nevin (1903-1906). 

They seem to have counted Ellen’s first two children (Sarah in 1896, Robert in 1898) as being born to the 1901 marriage, which suggests John James Nevin (senior) was their biological father.

I agree that it is probably Ellen’s daughter Sarah aged 14 in Owensland in 1911.  It is interesting that she is still a Bryson though, which contradicts my previous point.

Anyway, if that is Ellen’s daughter in Owensland with the Andrew family, that could be significant for the Bryson connections.  William Andrew’s wife Margaret (d. 1908) was a daughter of Robert Bryson of Ballyvoy.  From the will of Robert’s brother John (1859), we know they had a brother James (in America at the time) who had a son called Robert.

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Thursday 11 January 24 22:33 GMT (UK)  »
Agnes Boyd was a Bryson? That branch is so confusing with all those Bryson/Bryson marriages.  There certainly were other families. My John W went to Belfast for Margaret Wilson and to County Down for Mary McCune.

Yup.  And from your earlier message…

1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.

I think the line for the Ballyvoy/Duncansland property goes like:

James Bryson (c1746-1832) m. Elizabeth (c1745-1831)
---- James Bryson (c1785-1850) m. Elizabeth (c1798-1883)
-------- James Bryson (c1826-1909) m. Agnes Boyd née Bryson (c1823-1898)

The only problem is I don’t know where James Bryson of Cove Lodge (the middle one above) was buried.  I’m assuming his son the 3rd James was grandson of the 1st James because he is buried in the same plot, and he owned the same land.  Another possibility is that Agnes’s father Robert Bryson was a son of the 1st James, but he was of Ballybracken so I think belongs to another branch.

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Thursday 11 January 24 22:09 GMT (UK)  »
James Bryson d. 1861 was 27 when he died and his father James d. 1835 was still alive and married to Martha Ann.   John W was aware of his son's death in 1836 and left a bequest "to the children of my son James, deceased".
James Bryson d1861 is listed singularly on the ship manifest to Australia.  I thought it was a different James until it popped up on the headstone.

There’s no reason to attach James Bryson (c1834-1861) to John W. Bryson's family.  The headstone shows that he was not a grandson of John W. Bryson.

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Thursday 11 January 24 22:03 GMT (UK)  »
This family would potentially look like:

John W. Bryson (c1764-1836)
---- James Bryson (c1800-c1835)
-------- Robert Bryson (c1830-1897) m. Sarah Caldwell
-------- Mary Bryson (c1838-1903) m. William S. Bell

The obvious problem there being Mary apparently born a few years after the death of her father.  Her age in the 1901 census was 64, and it was also given as 64 when she died in 1903, hence I’ve gone for born c1838.  It is possible she was a bit older.

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Thursday 11 January 24 21:55 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Gilby!

I have DNA matches with two of Robert's daughters who were baptized at 1st Donegore.  His son James died without issue and left his estate to his brother William who had four daughters. Three are buried with Robert, William and their wives at Kilbride.  Unfortunately the Bryson name in this branch died off in 1940 with William's death. I thought the whole branch in Ireland had died off until I matched DNA with the Fosters. The O'Haras live in Colorado USA.

Hi!  I wouldn’t necessarily place make Robert’s father James Bryson as a son of John W. Bryson based on a DNA match, though it certainly looks like a possibility.  It is also possible James was a nephew of John W. Bryson.  These families intermarried so much that any DNA matches are likely to be stronger than you might expect.

Is there anything to indicate that any of the children of the James Bryson who died before 1836 (son of John W. Bryson) lived into adulthood?

Are the Fosters and O’Hara’s you mentioned descended from William Bryson (1869-1838) or his siblings?  Do you know what happened to Ellen Bryson (b. 1871) who had two illegitimate children in 1901?

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Tuesday 09 January 24 19:15 GMT (UK)  »
Here’s a transcript of the headstone in Kilbride Graveyard:

In memory of JAMES BRYSON, Holestone, who died 27th March 1878 aged 75 years.  His wife MARTHA ANN who died 9th [Aug] 1870 aged 59 years.  Also their children,  LIZZIE died 28th March, 1858 aged 10 years.  THOMAS died 27th Aug 1860 aged 19 years.  JAMES died [in] Australia 23rd May 1861 aged 27 years.  JOHN died 5th March 1864 aged 26 years.  ROBERT died 13th May 1872 aged 21 years.

There’s nothing there to indicate that James Bryson (c1834-1861) was not the son of James Bryson (c1803-1878) of Holestone. 

Here’s the marriage record from Donegore 1st Presbyterian:

July 5 1831.  James Brison, Holestone, to Martha Anne McConnell Ballywee.  Witnesses Jas Gawn Donegore & Thos McConnell Ballywee.

Unless there’s another marriage record of Martha Ann Bryson/McConnell to another James Bryson between 1831 and 1838, then I can see no reason to believe that James Bryson (c1803-1878) of Holestone is not the same James Bryson of Holestone who married her in 1831.

You mention that James Bryson travelled alone to Australia.  It is not impossible that he left a wife behind.  But his employer specifically described him as a “single man” during the inquest over his death.  So I don’t see any reason to think that he is the James Bryson who married Agnes Boyd née Bryson in 1855.

I know I’m probably beginning to sound obstinate, but I don’t mean to be!  I’m just trying to wrap my head around these connections.  As you say, there are too many James Brysons – I’m up to 33 on my tree now!

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Tuesday 09 January 24 18:46 GMT (UK)  »
Robert Bryson b. 1830 and James b. 1833-34 were both the sons of John W. Bryson's eldest son James b. Abt 1797 d. 1835 and Martha Ann McConnell.

Is there any documentary evidence for a connection to John W. Bryson?

Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Monday 08 January 24 22:06 GMT (UK)  »
I was also just looking at another James Bryson family trying to work out if there’s a connection…

1829 - PRONI D509/2479
Lease of 24 acres 3r. 4 per. I.P.M. for three lives renewable forever (See D509/690) - Consideration: £150 - Rent: £7.7s.9d. p.a. plus fees of Most Hon. George Augustus, Marquess of Donegall to James Gawn, Donegore, Co.Antrim and James Bryson, Jr., Holestone, Co. Antrim (Trustees for Arthur and Samuel Armar) relating to Ballyclaverty, Co. Antrim.

He’s probably the same James Bryson who was father of:

-   Robert Bryson (c1830-1897) m. (1860) Sarah Caldwell.
-   Mary Bryson (c1838-1903) m. (1858) William Samuel Bell.

Both of them were of Ballyclaverty when they married, and both mentioned Andrew Gawn (of Halftown) in their wills.

Edit: Mind you, James Bryson and James Gawn were only acting as trustees in 1829, so perhaps that James Bryson of Holestone never moved to Ballyclaverty.

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