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Messages - johking

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1
Somerset Lookup Requests / Re: NORMAN / BAGSHOT 1780s - twins?
« on: Sunday 06 August 23 18:03 BST (UK)  »
To be clear, my idea was to look for a King male married to a Kell female with children John and Francis. Or looking for Kell as a reference to a grandparent name might be also possible, which would be even more difficult.

There was also the other clue that they were supposed to come from a wealthy or noble family in some way. They tend to have better records so I had some hope there but never unearthed anything.

At least your records give a better idea of birth date than the old family tree, but I suspect it is a forlorn hope.

2
Somerset Lookup Requests / Re: NORMAN / BAGSHOT 1780s - twins?
« on: Sunday 06 August 23 17:39 BST (UK)  »
Fantastic information, thank you so much! It has made my Jamaica info much richer and fuller.

I have always wondered why John King's first child is named Louise Henriette. It seems a bit off to call your first child with another woman after your first wife. But maybe Anne Catherine Norman knew her and liked her and her death was mourned by both of them. Have you any insights there?

The Public Profiler GB Names is here: https://apps.cdrc.ac.uk/gbnames/ - enter the surname KELL. I see they have now gone back to 1851 and Kell is even more concentrated then. It's been a useful tool for me over the years when looking for the first place to search for a family origin. I never got anywhere with Kell though, as the dates are early and I guess you would have to be lucky to hit some church records that fitted. And sadly John and Francis are not exactly rare (unless Kell cropped up as a middle name). Oh for an Ebenezer or the like!

(Just spotted your next post. That is a clever idea)

3
Somerset Lookup Requests / Re: NORMAN / BAGSHOT 1780s - twins?
« on: Sunday 06 August 23 09:56 BST (UK)  »
Aha, "Cousin Katie" and James Dunn the architect?

That is absolutely fascinating about the King brothers and thanks for all the research you have done. The family tree we have does indeed look a bit unsure, with their names at the top but no indication of who produced the string of names in the next row of the tree.

The Jamaican records you mention seem to ensure that the Kell moniker belonged to Dr John King and I will have to update my records to suit. Was he the RN Captain as well I wonder, ie a medical doctor? ie the family tree knew there were two brothers and split up the naming knowledge they had?

It's been a while since I looked at all this stuff and I have just remembered I was kindly sent John King Sr's will (ie Dr John Kell King as I now know him to be) and right enough his brother Francis is mentioned - do you have that document?

You are yet to totally convince me that the 2 brothers didn't emigrate as in the legend. Counter argument - they were related to the Kings already in Jamaica and decided to go out to join them and make their fortune??

I've always assumed Kell is a surname and from the surname distribution map of 1881, the concentration is definitely in Yorkshire which would back up that side of the origin story. If it is a surname, it may be from a maternal line?

Very interesting about the French Haiti connection. John King's first wife was Henriette Louise Desouttes, according to the family tree. Is that a typo for Desgouttes do you think?

4
Somerset Lookup Requests / Re: NORMAN / BAGSHOT 1780s - twins?
« on: Saturday 05 August 23 16:22 BST (UK)  »
Great to get a repy to this after so long, and well sleuthed re John King and Anne Catherine Norman, though it is my husband's family tree not mine. Which of their many offspring are you descended from?  (my husband is Norman through two of George Norman and Ann Bagehot's children, as his great grandmother and his great grandfather were second cousins).

Our Norman family tree starts at Adrian Norman, Rector of Trushan Devon, d 15 Dec 1653, and wife Joan and gives them as parents of 4 children including John. You make a very coherent case for the Elizabeth belonging to Alleine, and the second wife to be Anne Blake. I like that. I see that Blakes pop up further down the Norman tree too, wonder if they are related...

Re the Kings in Jamaica, our family tree has has John King and Captain Kell King at the top:
"Captain Kell King, R.N. married Miss Bryan, emigrated with John"
alongside
"Doctor John King, born circ 1740 and emigrated circ [gap] Married circ 1775 Elizabeth Briggs"
 
Then under that are 12 names shown as siblings, but only Francis King b 1778 and Elizbeth Briggs King are shown as having offspring. Francis and Letitia Ann Hall have 5 offspring, including our John King as above.

Is that the same as yours? I have never been able to substantiate any of the Dr John and Captain Kell King details. I would love to know where they came from originally. We have a letter with an oral memory they were from NE England...

In my experience, having two very detailed family trees on both sides of the family is a great luxury - very lucky indeed! You must feel the same.

5
Somerset / Re: Somerset Monumental Inscriptions NORMAN/BAGEHOT
« on: Wednesday 13 February 19 09:15 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks! I've just sent them an email.

Jo

6
Somerset / Somerset Monumental Inscriptions NORMAN/BAGEHOT
« on: Tuesday 12 February 19 21:51 GMT (UK)  »
I am researching a family on FindMyPast and have come across a monumental inscription for George NORMAN b 1853, d 1807, Langport, Somerset. This is definitely the right person.

There is an intriguing note "Husband of Ann (daughter of Thomas and Priscilla BAGEHOT, decd.). c1910 copy of this lost MI incorrectly recorded year as 1808, but PR: says he was buried on 18 Dec 1807. See also KENT"

Does anyone familiar with the Somerset MIs know if the notes would have come from the memorial itself or is some extra knowledge from somewhere else?

Many thanks

Jo

7
The Common Room / Re: Conserving / donating 1780s(?) wedding clothes
« on: Friday 04 January 19 20:55 GMT (UK)  »
For anyone in a similar position, here is a good (and not at all daunting) article from the Smithsonian on storing antique textiles at home:

https://www.si.edu/faqs/antique-textile-storage


8
The Common Room / Re: Conserving / donating 1780s(?) wedding clothes
« on: Friday 04 January 19 15:30 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for the suggestion, will look into that.

Jo

9
The Common Room / Conserving / donating 1780s(?) wedding clothes
« on: Friday 04 January 19 13:27 GMT (UK)  »
I have been donated a bag of heirloom clothes from my husband's family, which includes a hand-embroidered satin waistcoat, like in Beatrix Potter's Tailor of Gloucester, and what is presumably his bride's skirt, which would have been worn with hip and bum pads by the look of it.

Looking online, the style seems to be around 1780s, and there is a very likely family tree wedding in Somerset for that time.

My query is what to do with them. They are in very good condition, but literally just stuffed into plastic bags. I don't know if they are museum quality - I imagine as they are partial outfits maybe not - and while it would be wonderful to see them on display and know they are properly conserved, I'm not sure about donating something of such meaning to the family which then just gets stuck in a vault somewhere.

On the other hand, if I keep them, how should they be looked after?

What would you do? Any ideas gratefully received!

Jo

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