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1
Travelling People / Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« on: Monday 30 September 24 07:40 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jane

           I do not go on F.B.  i once years back set a page up but i forgot how i set it up, i am not a member of or chat on any web site, i only post on here now and then i am trying to find more information to help Sky in the research of the Wilshers Wiltshire family's, Sky did not ask me, i just took it on myself, Sky already told me that vast amounts of information i posted over the years was good and of use.

I have found lots that i hope you and Sky will like, it will take me a while to write everything up, i write everything up free hand it takes ages, i hope you enjoy reading what i have found and hope also you both collect the story's, that's if you both find them new. I am also going to help Kazi in new information i know about the Smiths that she was researching.

I used to work with a Newark man for a year or two, they have their own ways, his family to had the pot hawkers in the older times around Newark Grantham, he loved nothing better than walking the land with his dogs he was sound to.

take care michael

 

2
Travelling People / Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« on: Friday 27 September 24 06:38 BST (UK)  »
  Hi Jane

                 In 1989 i found an article in the Grantham press telling the story of a team of horses crashing through the Town and scattering the pots of a Mr. Wiltshire into the road, i was thinking how strange and bizarre the story was evan a pig was trampled, I have been through Grantham many a time and never once did i ever see a horse never mind a pig walking down the road.

Stories may come to a person in the most unlikely of ways when you research like me, i literally read and read thousands of reports of the past, this way of researching gives you a personal insight into the very times of the peoples you are researching, I hope you and Sky benefit from the words i write, i see how you are both cousins of mine in d.n.a and you both have collected vast amounts on your own family's trees  also the three of us link up in the paper trail back through Edward Wiltshire 1860s, to Sky through his son William and to you through his son Joseph, i also share d.n.a matches with others that you Jane also link to as in some of your other d.n.a matches also match to me.
 
Back to the story above. On reading the article i was thinking wow the Wiltshire's are still going around the Grantham way hawking pots about the place, then I looked up to the top of the newspaper and there it was stated........ "Stories that made the news about 110 years ago.”

Well i thought that one sure had me going there, like a pig was just trotting down the road in 1989, so now i went back in time to find this Mr. Wiltshire the hawker of pots. Eventually there in 1879 march the month on the 29th day i found him, he only gets a mention of a few words, yet its a goldmine of a story, i truly try and learn and understand about the life's of all our ancestors, when i read into them i feel i am walking amongst them.

The story of 1879 tells of three horses attached to an empty wagon belonging to Brackenburry of Londonthorpe, it is wrote they may have been spooked by the whistle from a train, near the BlueBell Inn they collided with pigs that have been bought by one Mr. Pock the local butcher, that's what you must of done years ago, you would just go to the local market and buy yourselves some pigs and walk them to your butchers shop chop them up in a back stable like room and then sell the meat in the room facing the roadway, well this Mr. Burden he was by trade a chimney sweep he attempted to save a pigs life by getting it away from danger, well guess what happened he got well flattened crushed they write, and now they state his business may be done for. Further along this mad dash the horses with wagon in tow now find themselves in Watergate where the “Wiltshire” man has his crockery van, they do not give him a first name they just write that its Wiltshire from Newark and that one of the wheels of his van was made contact with and his crockery was precipitated into the road, the horses did not stop it is stated until they arrived home in Londonthorpe, they say this was miraculous as there being many a tight bend on their journey home.

 This to me is a fine research account and just like the census reports should be saved and made available for others to learn from as they read of the life's of the peoples they research for, in the story above great knowledge can be gained streets Towns public houses not to mention the name of the chimney sweep great evidence may be found within such discovery's, its a fine way to research and brings alive the cold names of old that just linger in dust filled files alone and abandoned tombstones they are nothing but tombstones.

I hope you liked this story and maybe we can find the name of this Wiltshire man from 1879, i bet he wasn't to pleased about the situation and how mad is it that the horses ran all the way home, that's what you see in those old cowboy films, it must be actually true, in real life not just in films they must do that when there trashed and they don't evan have the satellite navigation system, people these days forgot how to walk to a shop never mind knowing the road to Londonthorpe.

I will find some more stories I hope you and Sky save them evan just the bear record itself then along with just a name found in a death column you can say this was the life of the unknown Wiltshire the pot hawking man of Newark.

3
Travelling People / Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« on: Tuesday 24 September 24 14:59 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jane
         
   I never came across the children to Edward, Sky told me about Edward being the father to William, Sue the Empress of genealogy told me about William then Joseph then William then Rebecca then Rebecca then me, I may of left someone out but that's about it, I only can have a main line through the Woman, truthfully beyond Williams wife my gr grandmother a Hartley on the census born Hull well i never found out who her mother was, I found a record of a stated William Wiltshire travelling in a caravan of bright colours, inscribed on the caravan was Hartley Leeds, the Wiltshires would often use the name Hartley as an alias when trying to evade the police. My mother would plait her grandma's hair and her grandmar would talk about Scotland, she would tell my mother all about making baskets she told of the place she was born in a place she called Musselburgh, my mother would not of known of this place she was still young herself how on the census it says born in Hull well I often wonder why, i have read records and it is obvious they have no fear of telling lies, my gr grandma's name was Maria on the census but her real name she used was Mariah my mothers mother Rebecca was born in some open outside ground in Sheffield out of a wagon, I think her father was born Woodsetts Derbyshire and his father Yorkshire then Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire all at camp sites, I do not know about Edward, he I was told married a Smith girl, Lettia, I do not know how much Gipsy they have in them, Williams lot mix with and live with many Gipsies down through the years by the look of all the records that I have came across they lived in tents and caravans then houses, my mother would always speak with Romany words to us when we was young mixed with the cant i do not think she new the difference it was only when i came on the internet that i realised the truth yet still we new a good amount of the Romany my mother died before the internet and me meeting Sue from the south and long before i took a d.n.a. test. She never new of any of the things i learned. 

Strangely it was me who may have found the secret about her own mothers death, my mother would often talk about how her mother was attacked and kicked bad, my mother was young and through out her life would have the darkness come over in these times i would talk to her for a certain amount of time and then she would pull out of it, she would tell how it took her mother a year to die and that she would comfort her these were long lasting bad times for my mother she tried and tried to find out who was responsible relatives told her for years it was a jealous woman, i found out old old George Gipsy Smith or his son (same name) was charged with attacking her one year before she died,  it may be one of them its the same address and the same name George Smith Keswick street Sneinton.
 We would visit in later years his son Gipsy George Smith and they would talk about being Cousins, everyone dead now let them all rest in peace, now through looking and tracing through records and listening to others  George Oxby Smith was born in a tent, Staunton-on-the-Wolds, Notts 13 March 1868. died on 5 Feb 1947 at 4 Keswick Street Sneinton, Nottingham, a stones throw from where my mother was born. He was Baptised 18 Mar 1868.  His father is given as John Smith, (johnny two wife's) mother Maria - Gipsies. 
 
 I think any family who Carry's within them the breed of the Gipsies belong from the Gipsies through their breeding, it doesn't mean your a Romany or a Gipsy. I did my d.n.a and found a surprisingly large amount of Romany people from Europe who share d.n.a with me and they have not a drop of English or Irish Scotland or Wales in them, it must come from hundreds of years back, the amazing thing is i match to a Romany from the cold lands of Europe, I can see through their profile which countries there from, then I match mostly to the Romany Gipsy peoples from several countries right across Europe, Richard Edmund's the writer on the Gipsies of these lands once wrote that it is the Woman who hold the ancient d.n.a more that the males.

 Out of all my d.n.a matches in this land the Herons hold the most Romany Gipsy in them, I have matches to born and bred Herons and one of them go over sixty % in what Ancestry has now classified as European Romany ancestry, some of the European Gipsy's that i match to go over 90% the Smiths in England and Young's in America still have large amounts in fact all the main names that are mentioned by the old Gipsy scholar's are still in this day carrying in them the old  Romany genes. I suppose the old scholar's were about right in there assertion's. You do find people with large amounts of Romany d.n.a that hold names not thought of as being a Romany Gipsy name, this is where people have fallen into the trap of classifying names as having a true reference to a Gipsy identity, it is far more complicated than such a simplistic analysis.   
 
 I was about right to when i said that this line of the Wiltshire's settled heavy in Newark you only have to look at the births that you mentioned, I am no expert though, I like learning of their lives. I will write what I find soon, most of names in stories i find well they all seam to tie in to what you have wrote.  Look after yourself Jane I hope you are well………..michael

4
Travelling People / Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« on: Sunday 22 September 24 19:36 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jane
            Its good to hear from you, i hope you are well, yes you spoke to me before about your strong connections to the Wiltshire's in fact you have a fine Gipsy family through all sides, i thank you again for showing me all of your old photos i tried hour after hour to help you locate story's of your old peoples it was hard work but i was glad when you were happy. I wanted Sky to reply to me but i guess Sky's burned out. I think these Wiltshire's below may come out of Edward born around the 1760s, both sides the Newark line and the Yorkshire lot like the same names right up to the 1900s. 

  Jane in the Nottinghamshire press March 1924 is reported the death of Henry Wiltshire who is 71 years of age he passed away on the 2nd at Newark, under the title of ...........

"A well known Newarker's death”

Judging by his age he must have been born around the early 1850s they state he was the son of the late Joseph Wiltshire if this is the same family from the Joseph Wiltshire in my previous story then this Joe Wiltshire must be the son of the older Joseph who died in the 1860s and Henry the grandson of the Gipsy Joe Wiltshire born in the 1780s who could be the brother or son to the older Edward who married a Smith, the Joseph who was the father to Henry above had a fine trade in pottery-ware Henry and his sisters would go around the neighborhood selling pots on a dray drawn by a pony down through many decades you can see how they work the markets plus go knocking the doors, this is what makes me think that there is a chance that they may come out of the Gipsies, market traders tend to stick to markets, when you see the door to door work it shows more of a mindset.
Henry's father Joseph became well-to-do he had a fine house built in Newark known today as the old willow pattern in friary road it used to be known as priary road, its still there to this day with a plaque on the building above the archway to the front door you will see a very ornate stone decoration it represents the willow pattern of great renown in the pottery world.

Henry ended up in the Tenter building as some others did also, his fortune subsided at the deaths of his sisters who must have been the full force behind Henry at this time in his older life, we only can judge what we find there will be much more. 
 Henry in a lonely old state ended up seeking help from the poor law and grew weaker and weaker the relieving officer became a great friend at Henry funeral it is wrote his honesty and worth were recognized and esteemed by the wreaths on his coffin.


I am thinking all these Wiltshire's may link up, there is a chance that these people around Newark and Grantham Nottinghamshire  could be from the same family line as the ones who went over to Yorkshire out of William the son of Edward, those that went over to Yorkshire were very wild like I can not help looking at all these Wiltshire's around Newark and thinking they were more of a gentle folk just pottering around selling earthenware, if they are linked up they must of just hit on a great living and evolved into the area without the need to have a larger traveling route, after the 1860s they evolve into a more settled type that's if they are all connected to the older traveling Wiltshire family's, where the alarm bells ring for me though is the fact in all the records i find around Newark there all Wiltshire's by name, the Wiltshire's over Yorkshire Nottingham Derbyshire are known as Wilsher Wilshaw Wilshire Wiltshaw. In the Derbyshire press in the month of October 1908 Thomas Wiltshire is charged and sent to prison for violently attacking the police while poaching it is told to the court how he used the alias of Wilsher and Wilshaw.

In the month of August 1860 in the Nottinghamshire press Thomas Willsher along with William Elliott was stated as being the principal Gipsies in an encampment of 30 Gipsies staying at the four lanes end Farnsfield where they were apprehended and later charged at Southwell. This is not far from Newark, this Thomas Willsher i have no doubt will link back to the Yorkshire line. It would be interesting to find out if the Wiltshire's around Newark are related to all the other Wiltshire's who are known by variations of their name and travel over several counties in a circuit.

This is a link below to a web site about Newark where these words are wrote about the Wiltshire's. They write that it was Henry who built the house, yet the story above tells of how it was Henry's father Joseph. I also came across an older record several years back stating this to, i will try and find it again, so you see how evan modern records could be found to be false, like i say i do not know for sure about the true history of these Wiltshires and if they truly link up to the older Edwards line, either way its a great story though.

http://www.newarkcivictrust.org.uk/public/documents/trails/victoriantrail.pdf


One of the Town's finest name-plaques, “The Old Willow Pattern, marks the house erected in 1885 for Henry Wiltshire, glass and china dealer." 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/The_Old_Willow_Pattern_-_geograph.org.uk_-_3116554.jpg

 

 

5
Travelling People / Re: Nottingham stopping ground-Smiths Field? Help
« on: Friday 20 September 24 17:08 BST (UK)  »
 Hi Sky

I hope this post finds you well, i am sound, have you had enough of the researching yet, you sure went for it a couple of years back, well done i learned much from your hard work, have you come across this record its in the Nottinghamshire papers 1862 it is stated that Joseph Wiltshire died on the 25th at East Retford he was 73 years old, this would put him as born around the 1780s, have you this Joseph in your records, would he be another son to Edward, in another Nottinghamshire paper the same year they also talk of his funeral and that he belonged to a tribe of Gipsies, he was buried at Retford cemetery where the greatest of respect was manifested by the fraternity for the old man, I know we are related to Edwards son William so is this Joseph a brother of William, it looks like another branch early in the 1800s went of to the Newark and Grantham way up to early 1900s china dealers pot hawkers and such I will write up some of the information soon in the chance they may be of interest  to you.

6
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« on: Friday 20 September 24 09:43 BST (UK)  »
 The grave of Dan Boswell "Gypsy King"
 
This above is the title of a Photo taken of the new gravestone erected to the side of the old broken gravestone which is still standing in its original position, the year being 1976, the articles are wrote over two separate pages in one article it states words like the “previous year" so you have to be mindful yet not seduced. In 2012 i was approached in st Helens churchyard by the very man who claimed to be the one who had excavated and installed the new gravestone, the original stone “its right there” he exclaimed pointing to the ground just in front of the new monument, he told how he had dug the hole and set the new stone, which he claimed was not in the original position, this as now turned out to be true, the photo is now compelling absolute evidence proving he at least spoke the truth among the many down through these long years since Dan Boswell was interned who spoke and wrote, “conjectured was the tomb” yes he at least was an honest man, I could see him racking his brain, in deep thought he tried for me to remember details from a time long gone, he did well in his thoughts, I will write again soon with more evidence and history of this amazing story...Gipsy Dan Boswell.


 On reading the exact articles located in the Ripley and Heanor News and Ilkeston Division Free Press dated 30 April 1976
you will hear and see for yourself the most fascinating encore, as of yet, this most intriguing mist like rich story of old, cloaked in crooked lies adorned with untruths, trod this ground was by the most unholy scoundrels, strangers to the truth, kings of conjecture sullied this resting place the place of Boswell the Gipsy himself.

So it now transpires that through reading the articles you will find yourself that there were three gravestones, two made of stone one of wood, and mind blowing is the very fact that it is stated that the Vicars wife  Mrs. Simmonds had marked the grave with a wooden board marked in poker work— Dan Boswell, Gypsy King, how many years this wooden monument stood, i do not know, the very hands of the Vicars wife were the first to transcribe the words “Gypsy King” how the road turns would you believe it, I do wonder could it turn once more, who knows, sure I never would believe such a story not in my wildest thoughts over manys the hour of research on this story did I chance to think of such a thing, and more to descendants of Dan Boswells the “Spendloves” are stated as still living in Selston and Dan was evan born in Selston, “under an hedgerow.” on common land now known as Portland road It is also stated that they along with like minded locals help to raise the funds for the last of the three monuments, well it tells of how relations contributed, I am just thinking it could be the Spendloves but it does not actually link the two it could be others through the name of Boswell, the man who first told me the story of the gravestone did say that some people had claimed that they payed for the new gravestone and this fact he said was wrong he told it was mostly the family's of the church at st Helens who raised the money, he was quite adamant on this touched with a saddening tone to his voice.

 To be truthful in 2012 July the month on the 12th day was the day, the very same day manys the year before that my Mother died in front of these eyes of mine, I still am entombed in that day, so truthfully all I was doing was working round those winding beautiful slopes of Selstone doing some outside work, the rain would come and go, I thought to myself I know I'll visit and pay my respects to the Gipsy Dan Boswell, truthfully I was respecting the memories of my Mother and Gipsies gone to the world she had great love for Gipsy people, we are just scrag ends but I did find through the science of d.n.a that we are related to quite a few Boswells evan some in America, I was very proud to be honest, I did like the ones which came down from and through Lawrence known today as the Derbyshire Boswells, yet for me the biggest smile of all was when i was reading about the shared fragments of d.n.a with a Boswell who descended from Daniel Boswell, how wild is that, this story is wild.

So if you are interested in reading and seeing the first ever photo of the old stone side by side with the new one just singe up to the  national newspaper archives, believe me its fantastic, they are real nice people there who will help you navigate that web site, you can just pay as you go if you want, say for just a day, its very inexpensive or evan enroll for a few months or a year. www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

 
 It is wrote selton was once known as salestone in the doomsday book "the place of the willows." also do not forget the old gravestone was buried in the ground just Infront of the new stone, it does not tell you this in the report above plus the man who dug the new grave in dug out the old one and like I say its now buried on top of the grave, he also told of the photo taken of him digging the grave so in the future more hopefully will transpire, this photo above shows the original stone facing the church, they must have thought of leaving both the old and new gravestones together, for some reason the old one was dug out and buried, maybe legally you can not have two stones or evan move a stone either way the details in the photo from the 70s align with the words told to me.     

7
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« on: Friday 16 December 22 13:07 GMT (UK)  »
This is my 999th post. 

 I would like for anyone who ever Chance's this way to learn about Richards writings, i do not know Richard but at the beginning of these posts Richard just popped up and helped me, he wrote about a small part of the history of the Boswells and other Gipsy's if you read through the posts at the beginning of this thread you will read several from Richard, I looked at how he searched the National Newspaper Archives and found amazing story's, so i copied him and self learned to search myself. Richard i would say searchers for honest truth for all truth is seldom honest yet to search through honest eyes is a feat seldom reached i am sure he is always updating his findings and correcting at length through newer works yet to be published. So this my 999th post is wrote here for Richard to highlight his writing's and ongoing studies.


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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #107 on: Monday 11 June 18 08:56 BST (UK) »
"The Y haplo tests are much more reliable than the 'ethnicity' or 'MTdna tests', which are just too vague or unreliable"

I tend to agree with you on the ethnicity tests in general Sally, though I tested with LivingDNA, and it was about 85% acccurate compared to my paper research. It was very accurate with English counties, but not so great identifying regions outside those (Ireland, Scotland, France etc) so I think the companies are slowly getting better in that respect, as more people test, and their databases expand.

That said I would not agree with that analysis of mtDNA. mtDNA is not vague or unreliable, it gives very precise and accurate ancestry results:

"mtDNA is passed down exclusively from your mother. Because mtDNA does not include a combination of DNA from both parents, it does not change with every generation.In fact, mtDNA changes extremely slowly – it might remain exactly the same for dozens of generations!
mtDNA testing ignores the main DNA in a cell, and looks just at the DNA of the mitochondria instead. Among other things, that means the test only has to examine about 16,500 genetic base pairs, instead of the 3.2 billion base pairs found in our DNA."

In tracing links to ancient populations, it is of far more value than Y Haplogroups,  because mtDNA is present in higher numbers than nuclear DNA, and it is more likely to survive intact in ancient remains.

Despite the very ancient results it typically gives, in terms of Romany people in Europe, or Romany descended people, it is still of clear use and interest, as there are a few haplogroups, including my own, which are almost exclusively seen in the Romany population, but otherwise virtually absent in the wider general European population. In my own case it was crucial in backing up the paper evidence and family lore, and is much more reliable as evidence than trace South Asian autosomal ethnicity results, which as you rightly point out may not always be very reliable and are frequently seen in many tested people.

There are some examples of Romanies noted as 'Black men' or 'Negroes' in relation to prominent UK Romany families, Hearns, Lovells, etc, in my book 'The Early Romany Boswells: A Family History 1650-1810 Part 2', which was published by the Romany and Traveller Family History Society, in February this year, and is still available:

https://www.richedmunds.co.uk/earlyboswells2

There are also several further examples I have identified in relationship to the Romany Smiths, which I will be publishing in my forthcoming work on that family, available January next year. Thanks for the interest Sally.

https://www.richedmunds.co.uk/post/romani-origin-dna
https://www.richedmunds.co.uk/post/dna-a-window-to-the-deep-past
 

8
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« on: Thursday 15 December 22 17:16 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Don
   Like i told you i will write down all the Lock Locke names that are contained within all my D.N.A.
 cousin match's trees, i will only be able to show you what they show me, if you are interested i will give them your contact details, what you ask of them will be up to you so if anything i write rings a bell just say which D.N.A match is of interest you never know something may lead you back to Richard, i will only put a few names on that i think may help you to form a bigger picture there will be no need for you to answer any of these posts when i am done i will just leave things there and no doubt we will not speak again, good luck with your research, if by chance you are not interested in such things just say nothing, i am sure that these writings of mine will be of help to others. I will be leaving the country for a few weeks soon, i will continue posting on my return i will say at the end when i am finished.

This below will be D.N.A. match no. 3. from England. no. 1. will be on the previous post about H. Smith the male from the Gloucestershire lot. no. 2 will be the three Locks descended from Zacharia Lock from Wales who died in America but comes out of Henry Lock stated as being from England.

D.N.A. match no. 3. Female Born and bred a Davies from both sides a very impressive family tree we share 41 D.N.A. matches all Gipsy descendants including Davies and Smiths below names of interest that may be of interest.

George Davis 1755–Thomas Smith 1727–1838 Mary m Lock / Locke 1685–1745 Sarah Hannah Taylor Smith 1729–1834 Jeremiah / Jerry Davis 1804–1863 Aaron Smith 1788–1859 James Smith 1813–1876 Edmond V. Lock 1653–1728 Elizabeth Lock 1754–1797 George Lock / Locke 1754–1814
Elizabeth Stevens 1758–James Stevens 1730–1796 John Stevens 1688–1768 John Locke 1686–1731 Eve Lock 1804–1885 Corneilius Stephens 1871–1928 Sarah Anne Stephens 1917–1999 Thomas Stephens 1831–1881 George Lock 1724–1764 Abraham Smith 1680–1747 Comfort Smith 1775–1870 Isaac Smith 1712–James Smith 1735–1830 James Smith 1767–1830 James Smith 1813–1876
James "Gemmy The Gypsy" Smith 1767–1830 Jasper Smith 1749–1838 Jemima Smith 1747–1803
John Smith 1690–1761 John Smith 1723–1785 John Smith 1727–1785 Nathaniel Smith 1843–1921
Nathaniel Smith 1844–1921 Susanna Smith Thomas Smith  1692–1759 William Smith 1704–1766
Aaron 1 Legged Smith 1788–1859 Thomas Smith 1686–1759 Cinnamenta smith 1880–1965 Austin Davis1762–1835Ben Davis 1700–George Davis 1720–Jane Davis Jeremiah / Jerry Davis 1804–1863 John Davis Sarah Davis 1806–Thomas Davis 1739–1824 Mizzeley Davis
1907–1994 Merrick Lock 1782–1861 Sarah Lock 1811–1888 William Davis 1772–Sarah Ann Davis
1850–Thomas Davies 1791–Sarah Lock Smith 1811–1888 ? Davies 1740–Ann Davies 1817–1885
Benjamin Davies 1774–1874 Cornelius Davies 1879–1946 Cornelius james Davies 1908–1984 David Davies 1791–1868 Edith Davies 1889–1953 Edward Davies 1780–1860 James Davies 1790–1851
James Davies 1841–James Davies 1848–1932 James Alexander Gill Davies 1856–1935 John Davies
1809–1894 John Davies 1833–1898 Mary Davies 1809–1882 Sarah Davies Sarah Anne Davies 1840–Shirley Pearl Davies 1938–1999 Thomas Davies 1811–1888 William Davies 1800–1905 William H Davies 1884–1962 Wisdom Davies 1909–1976 Wisdom Davies 1938–2020 wisdom Davie's
1893–1965.

And look at these two i have been researching the Smiths and camping grounds in my own place of Nottingham then would you believe it these two just come along who are in my D.N.A. cousin match's family tree, and Bullwell is right next to Hucknall where the Derbyshire Boswells stayed Linda's lot. The Smiths i am sure are woven into my Mothers D.N.A. going back to times unknown, the bigger picture is there for all, maybe its not even hidden just like Dan Boswells old gravestone its right under your feet said the old Church helper who showed me the spot where he buried the remaining fragment that was left from the stone first erected many years before, then through me reading vast amounts of what could be said of as endless boring information i found that in 1963-64 the Church burial ground was littered with old broken gravestones so the people of this time connected to the Church used the old toppled gravestones to form walkways around the Churchyard, so Dan Boswell the Gipsy of long years still has all his gravestone in the the Church ground and both bits are under your feet, one day someone may dig up a path and find the true Epitaph when they combine the broken gravestones from the walkway and the buried one that lays buried just Infront of the the new erected stone from the 70s, also the Church helper told me the new gravestone is facing the wrong way, Dan was actually buried facing the Church if you stand a stride infront of the new stone turn to your left and there lays the Gipsy, Daniel Boswell. I found all this out by chance and by just digging away at chances that came my way, i was very lucky indeed the day i chanced by Selston, Dan was there to when i first approached his tomb i stopped in my track's i could feel him in a seeing way he told he was waiting sad to touched with anger within the moment he was gone he never came back, that's just the way of it. 

 John Smith 1723–1785 Thomas Smith 1686–1759 bullwell Nottingham.

All the information that i am writing about is information that i come across what is correct or
totally wrong or even something between is something that only time will reveal.

9
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« on: Wednesday 14 December 22 14:51 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Don
   I have many D.N.A matches to the Gloucestershire way you know the Smiths Stevens Davies they are linked with the Locke's Locks, I am just looking though for anything that may trigger an hidden meaning, one of the male Smiths who i cousin D.N.A match to and goes by the name of H. Smith shares 74 D.N.A. matches with me who are all from people with known Gipsy ancestry me and this Smith male both match to people from America. On Ancestry D.N.A it is stated that they come down a line of locks, the locks start of in Wales at the turn of the 1800s and end up in California.

These are the locks

William Edward Lock 1931–1974 Eben Loyd Lock 1894–1948 Ebenezer (Eben-Edward) Lock 1850–1935 Zacharia Lock 1827–1887

I read this piece below on-line -Born in Wales on abt 1827 to Henry Lock and Elizabeth F Lock. Zacharia Lock married Elizabeth O'Connor and had 3 children. He passed away on 25 Sep 1887 in Oakland, Alameda, California, USA.
 
I am through D.N.A related to three people from America who come down through this line of Locks both on the male line and the female line plus the Indian ethnicity still is showing up in two of the them through their own personal D.N.A, true they may have got there Gipsy D.N.A from someone else in Wales like a Lee from the 1700s or evan someone from America, i am just trying to find clues, this is the important bit they all share D.N.A with me and many other people with Gipsy ancestry there is not one link between us that contains a person who is not in a D.N.A Gipsy cluster and of great value is the fact that through D.N.A they relink to each other this I think isolates by a good percent the Lock name as the binding reason for the reason of their D.N.A  cluster link combining this with their D.N.A linking with the Gloucestershire Smiths as noted above i think they are worth looking into, i just think of your original question about Richard so i look for anything that may contain clues I have been reading the older posts on roots chat and I see you and Vince are well acquainted, these below are a few of the names in the male Smith mans line who I started this post with, he links to me and the American Locks he links twice and I three times this will only be through our own personal D.N.A

 Abraham (Bummie) Smith 1876–Aaron Smith 1788–1859 Merrick Lock 1782–1861 James Smith 1813–1876 Sarah Locke 1811–1888 Abraham Mustoe 1809–1869 Jane Mustoe 1840–Thomas Mustoe 1779–1847 Eleanor Stevens 1817–1891 Robert Stevens 1783–1849 Absalom Smith 1768–1826 Archeleus Smith 1829–Arthur Smith 1777–1822 Cinderella Smith 1845–Elizabeth Smith1735–Elsie Smith Gilroy (Sonner) Smith 1900–1995 Henry Smith 1943–Isabella Smith 1874–1966 Lavinia T Smith 1795–Louisa Smith 1808–1872 Mark Smith 1800–1869 Neptune Smith 1775–1855 Sampson Smith 1841–
 
 these are the posts on roots chat that made me know not to write up everything, i wonder what Vince would think of my many D.N.A matches. 
 
 Extracts

Travelling People / Re: Stevens - Loveridge
on: Monday 02 April 12 
 
 My x2 Grt Grandad, was Guilroy Smith, brother of the preacher Reuben Smith.  Guilroy was married to Eve Stevens, who was in turn the daughter of Manny Stevens and Eve Lock.
The Stevens, Locks and Smiths married into each other a lot, often first cousins, and usually several siblings from one family would marry several siblings from another family.
all that I have learned.....Romany Jib team, Don Lock and Eric Trudgill.
 
Vince.
 
Re: Nellie Davis
 on: Sunday 15 January 12 

Thanks to Eric trudgill's piece on Merrick Lock, ( our ancestor), I know now that Annie Davies, was infact Sarah Anne Davies, and that Natty and guilroy were brothers.
the Smiths, Davies and Locks, appear to have been so intermarried, that anyone researching these clans in Glos. would need to consider that the names can end up being interchangeable.

Re: Stevens
on: Thursday 15 September 11

on the Traveller board, you'll see contact info for Don Lock.  If not I'll pm his contact.
 My ancestor, was Eve Stevens, daughter of Manny Stevens and Eve Lock.  She married my grt grt Grandfather, Guilroy Smith. Scources: Don Lock and Sue Day

Travelling People / Re: Gyspy Surname
on: Saturday 26 September 09

I did a test with don Lock's project and one of the great surprises is the amount of people who carry the Gypsy gene and don't know it.  It is rarer on the female side (up to yet) because gypsy men have always married out.  I was somewhat surprised to find that my smith line went back to India.  Had I done the female line,
I now get e-mails from people all over the world desperate for an explanation as to why they have an Indian root when they only have European ancestry in living memory.  Just shows how many got deported.
 


Don i will go back through all my D.N.A matches and find all the old Lock Locke names within them and just write the names and dates down here, if then you would like me to write to any of them i will email them with your contact details. 

Also i just found this....Memberency Rememberence Boswell 1779–1869 she is an ancestor of another one of my D.N.A cousin matches with Matthew Locke 1785–1871 and Devit Margaret Boswell Smith 1753–1841 Horsforth, St Margaret, Yorkshire in the same tree but guess what, this cousin match is also matched along with me to the descendant's of Zacharia Lock 1827–1887. We all link up through the cousin sequence in another cluster.

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