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Oh that's very interesting Neale1961,

Considering I've now traced his father John Livingstone over to the US, it is very interesting that his son may have gone that way too, but to Canada.

His mother's name was not listed on his death cert, perhaps because Janet left him to be raised by his grandparents while she married and had more children with Duncan Gow. John may have known his father's name simply because he was named after his father, but may not have had anything to do with him.

Forfarian,

 I also wonder where he was in 1871 if not in Scotland, could he have been in the US looking for his father? Can't find anything to support this, however.

Wow, Forfarian and Neale1961, you were both correct!

John was found by the Kirk Sessions to be the illegitimate child of Janet Duncan and John Livingstone.
Now I just have to find out where John Jr went following the 1861 Census.

Thank you both for your help, it is much appreciated!

EB

Hi everybody,

I am currently doing research into my Duncan side of the family, who are from Muthill, Perthshire.
In the 1851 Census they are residing in Muthill and living with them is a grandson, who I think is named John Livingston, aged 6. He is still living with them in 1861, aged 16. I have been unsuccessful in finding out what happened to him after this fact, and I am not too sure who his parents are.

1851 Household Transcript:
Andrew Duncan   78
Isabel Duncan   58
Andrew Duncan   26
Joseph Duncan   22
Alexander Duncan   18
John Leveingston   6

1861 Household Transcript:
Isabella Duncan   69
Andrew Duncan   36
Alexander Duncan   27
John Ferrington   16

I have attached both the 1851 and 1861 census so you can see for yourself.

Isabel Kay and Andrew Duncan had 6 children but I cannot find a marriage for the couple:
Andrew (1815-bef.1823)
Isabella (1818-1883) m. George Brand in 1840
Janet (1820-1908) m. Duncan Gow in 1846
Andrew (1823-1908) never married
Joseph (c.1828-1906) m. Ann Buchanan in 1852
Alexander (c.1833-1896) never married

I believe (but I do not have any connecting proof) that Andrew had a previous marriage with Ann Whyte in 1805 in Muthill, to which a daughter Agnes was born in 1811. I cannot find any other children for this marriage, and I cannot find what happened to Agnes following her birth. If Agnes is the daughter of Andrew Duncan (who later had a relationship with Isabel Kay) then she may be the mother of this John Livingston. However, I cannot find anything about either of them.

I appreciate any help, thank you!
EB

Jomot,
That's very interesting, I guess DNA would be the only way to work it out, I guess I'm just confused as to why they would marry
a) in the first place, if he is not the father of one of her previous children?
b) if he decides not to be with her at all following their marriage?

Perhaps they had an agreement to be married on paper so she could "live her life" and keep having children (not necessarily his) and he could go and be with/do whoever/whatever he wanted? Hannah was also a labourer so it seems like she was financially responsible for the kids. It's a scenario I've been thinking about recently.

Wivenhoe,
The family seems to interchange between the name ANDREW and ANDERSON, but I have researched the previous generation (Henry and Harriet and their children) to make sure it is the same family and I am quite sure that it is. To me it seems like Hannah is borrowing her father's name. I have uploaded Robinson ANDREW's birth and death certificate here so you can have a look. It does not state that Harriet is the grandmother on the death certificate, I made that assumption from Hannah's family relationship as they lived quite close to each other in Carr Gate.

I am descended from Hannah's third illegitimate child, Joseph ANDREW (although by the time he is married his name changes to ANDERSON and has been passed down through the generations as ANDERSON) and his first wife Sarah SNOWDEN.

Brigidmac,
This does make sense, I hadn't thought that the priest might have a hand in refusing to name the father but it could be the case. I thought that if she was an infamous figure in the area I might find something online, although I did trawl through the gaol records and newspapers and couldn't find anything regarding her.
I agree that DNA would be the way to solve it, although I've not had much luck yet with my own DNA.
Yes the name change is very interesting, I thought maybe she knew that her parents interchanged between the names of ANDREW and ANDERSON so she thought she could get away with naming her kids ANDERSON (as if they had a father) while she used the name ANDREW. Everything points back to Hannah ANDERSON/ANDREW being the same person, it even becomes HENDERSON at one point. The name change went down generations to my great grandmother, whose maiden surname was ANDERSON.
Harriet and Henry are on the censuses together as ANDERSON, when Henry dies his surname is recorded as ANDREW and when Harriet dies her surname is recorded as ANDERSON.

Rosie99 and lancsann,
I think you could be right. I think there has been a clerical error in the burial record, making it likely he was buried early July. Usually there was only a few days between death and burial, right? Unless there was an inquest, which isn’t the case for Robinson.

Lancsann,
Yes it’s very odd, Thomas Fleming is named as father on all of the birth certs, but when it comes to the baptisms, the children are only baptised under Hannah Fleming (no father listed) or Hannah/Ann Anderson (no father listed). I really don’t know what the situation is with this family!