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Messages - darianb

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New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Could Cathleen MOORE and Cathleen HUTCHISON, 1888 be the same people?
« on: Tuesday 29 September 20 16:00 BST (UK)  »
As an answer to the original question that I posted, I've had a response from BDM NZ and they confirmed that the registration for Cathleen Moore's birth was replaced by the registration of Cathleen Hutchison, with her mother's surname. I haven't ordered the print out yet but with this information, DNA evidence, and the fact that Fred Moore and Margaret Hutchison were neighbours, I'm fairly sure that Cathleen's father was Frederick William Moore.

Since my last post, I believe I have found another child of Fred's to another woman but that still needs to be confirmed.

Thanks everyone for your help.

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New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Could Cathleen MOORE and Cathleen HUTCHISON, 1888 be the same people?
« on: Tuesday 08 September 20 23:19 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Lucy2 on Tuesday 08 September 20 22:16 BST (UK)
Hi Darian

There is a "tree" at ancestry.com for Frederick William SCHULER (d. 1899) which appears to focus on Cathleen MOORE.    Not sure if it's of any help to you ?

   ~   Lu
Yes, I had seen a couple of them, one by my DNA connection. I suspect the owner saw Frederick as the father and decided it was Frederick Schuler rather than Frederick Moore. That is possible but that wouldn't explain her Moore surname nor my DNA connection to Cathleen's descendants.

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New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Could Cathleen MOORE and Cathleen HUTCHISON, 1888 be the same people?
« on: Tuesday 08 September 20 14:21 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, this is all very helpful. The possibility of fishy family relationships could make tracing my connection through DNA a bit complicated but I'll search for some descendants of the Schulers now that I know they went to Canada. The number of half siblings should hopefully mean that I can pinpoint exactly how I'm related to them. I'll post here once BDM gets back to me with an answer about what happened to Cathleen Moore's birth registration and depending on what they say, I'll buy Cathleen Hutchison's birth print out and perhaps Cathleen Moore's wedding print out.
With some luck, once I've solved this, I can then start to work out what happened to Fred Moore's father, the family brick wall!

Thanks again for all of your digging.

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New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Could Cathleen MOORE and Cathleen HUTCHISON, 1888 be the same people?
« on: Tuesday 08 September 20 10:23 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Lucy2 on Tuesday 08 September 20 01:48 BST (UK)
Quote from: darianb on Monday 07 September 20 22:43 BST (UK)

Question: In 1888, how would a birth be recorded if the parents were not married or if the father was not involved? Could it be mother's surname but father's first name listed? Has anyone seen a situation where a birth shows up on Ancestry but not BDM?

Can you tell us when your great grandfather Frederick William MOORE, married, please ?   (There are several men of that name.)

   ~  Lu

Thank you everyone for everything so far. I hadn't managed to connect the Canadian Schulers yet.

Interesting that Paulina was going by the name Hutchison. I wonder if it was because it was shortly after the war or if it was related to her birth date being only about six months after the wedding as far as I can tell.

I've contacted BDM to see why there might be two records. Twiggy mentions possible adoption so I'm hunting for that but I couldn't see Mr Schuler/Schiller adopting her as yet.

My Frederick William MOORE was born in Belfast in 1860 and came out to NZ in 1873 on the Hero, via Melbourne on the Ben Ledi in 1872. Still not sure why they were in Melbourne. He was with his mother, Victoria Moore (nee Brown), brother James Morgan MOORE, sister Amy Louse MOORE, and aunts named Haslett and Brown (the aunts eventually moved to San Francisco). He lived with his mother and sister (James Morgan moved to Australia) in Bradford St, Parnell. He ran a book/stamp shop for some time until selling up and buying an orchard in Henderson, West Auckland. In his late 40s, he married a widow, Florence Lucy GYLFE (nee HARRIS) and adopted her three children. He went on to have two daughters - another Kathleen (1915) and Hazel (1920). He died in 1951 having never hinted that he had another daughter.

He may have also been connected to the St George's Rowing club but I can't work out if that was him or his father-in-law now.

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New Zealand Completed Requests / Could Cathleen MOORE and Cathleen HUTCHISON, 1888 be the same people?
« on: Monday 07 September 20 22:43 BST (UK)  »
Due to some close DNA matches, I have a hypothesis that my great grandfather, Frederick William MOORE had a daughter out of wedlock, named Cathleen in 1888.

On Ancestry there is a birth for Cathleen MOORE, Auckland, 1888 folio 2276 but that doesn't show up on BDM. What I can see though is the birth of Cathleen HUTCHISON, mother Margaret, father Frederick in 1888. This birth is another one of the seven births on folio 2276 in 1888 on Ancestry. The reason I believe these could be the same people is that when Cathleen marries Percy ALLPORT in 1910, her name is MOORE. They then move in with Margaret SCHILLER/SCHULER (nee HUTCHISON) in 109 Richmond Rd according to the 1911 electoral roll.

On folio 2276 five of the seven names have BDM numbers 1888/16578-16582 but two are missing, including Cathleen MOORE.

Frederick William MOORE lived a road away in Parnell from Margaret HUTCHISON, who also lived a road away from Frederick William SCHILLER/Frederich Wilhelm SCHULER (a German immigrant whose name changed over the years) who she married in 1894, meaning they could easily have known each other.

Question: In 1888, how would a birth be recorded if the parents were not married or if the father was not involved? Could it be mother's surname but father's first name listed? Has anyone seen a situation where a birth shows up on Ancestry but not BDM?

Thanks
Darian

6
Antrim / Re: What happened to James Moore of Belfast?
« on: Saturday 05 September 20 13:40 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: iluleah on Saturday 05 September 20 12:24 BST (UK)
Not sure if this is any help or any connection to your James https://sites.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/M/MooreJ.htm certainly looks like 'a' James along with wife and 1 child migrated in 1862 to NZ
I should have mentioned in my post - the three children were born in Belfast in 1860, 1863, and I have 1864 recorded but her death age in NZ would put her birth at 1867. I've just realised though I could only find an unnamed daughter born to a Moore/Brown couple in Belfast in 1865. I'll have to order that to check if it's really them to narrow down the possible date of death.

My understanding is that they travelled on the Ben Ledi from Scotland to Melbourne in 1872 then to  NZ on the Hero in 1873. I don't know how or why they travelled to Scotland but her brother-in-law was an iron monger and they travelled on a ship carrying mostly metal and very few people to Melbourne (Australia).

But thanks for the link, that is new to me. It should help me cross off a few names on my list of James Moores.

7
Antrim / What happened to James Moore of Belfast?
« on: Friday 04 September 20 22:33 BST (UK)  »
My 2nd great grandmother, Victoria Moore (nee Brown) moved from Belfast to New Zealand in 1872 (via Scotland and Australia) with three children (James Morgan, Frederick William, and Amy Louise) and two sisters (Brown and Haslett). I can't work out what happened to her husband, James Moore, if he died or something else. In their 1859 marriage, he is listed as a merchant of Belfast, son of Andrew Moore the farmer. If he died, I'd have expected an announcement in the newspaper as the Brown family had money and announced all of the daughter's weddings.

This week I've discovered a DNA connection to a descendant of Nancy/Nannie Moore, daughter of Andrew Moore but I don't know if they are the same family yet. Her witness in 1868, James Moore, has different writing to James Moore at his wedding in 1859. Gaffy, an immense help, found a George Moore, son of Andrew and Nancy/Annie but I haven't worked out yet how to link him to the others. These people all have a connection to Randalstown.

I've tried to find James in street directories or deaths but had no luck yet spotting the correct one as it's a common name.I'm hoping for some help working out what happened to him and who his family was.

Thanks in advance for any hints.

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Deciphering text on a Northern Irish marriage registration
« on: Friday 04 September 20 20:36 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: gaffy on Friday 04 September 20 06:35 BST (UK)
The words 'Lived Private' (ie. private means / income, there are lots of examples of 'living private' stated for occupation in the 1901 and 1911 Ireland censuses) would indicate that Andrew Moore was deceased.  I also wondered about the following local newspaper death notice in April 1874: 'MOORE - April 10, at Randalstown, Nancy, relict of the late Mr. Andrew Moore, aged 66 years.'. Relating to that notice (albeit death date is out by a day), there is the following gravestone inscription in Drummaul Church of Ireland graveyard: 'Erected by George Moore, in loving memory of his father, Andrew Moore, died, 5th February 1863, also his mother, Annie Moore, died, 11th April 1874'. Just a possibility.

Thanks for all of your help. I'm now putting together a tree one this family to see if I can find a connection to my Moores. I think I'll make a new post once I have that explaining my main aim - to find out what happened to James Moore.

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Deciphering text on a Northern Irish marriage registration
« on: Friday 04 September 20 20:34 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: heywood on Friday 04 September 20 10:50 BST (UK)
Not sure if this refers to your people

Calendar of Wills
1868
Andrew Moore - late of Dagmar Street Belfast , Gentleman, a Widower died 29 May 1868
Letters of Administration granted to James Moore, Beersbridge Cottage, Ballymacarrett, CountyDown, Flax Merchant, one of the next of kin.

Thanks, that one is a possibility. I know that flax was popular at the time but James' witness was also in the business and his father in law in linen.

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