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Messages - Horsley2016

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1
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck with a Mary Ann! London/Liverpool
« on: Friday 12 July 19 16:16 BST (UK)  »
Thank you!

2
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck with a Mary Ann! London/Liverpool
« on: Friday 12 July 19 15:42 BST (UK)  »
Well we know that HDM's Father, Malcolm, was an Army Officer and there is an unproven, but likely link, that HDM in 1841 was at St Martin in the Fields as a Fusilier Guard. So a move to a Policeman wasn't that far fetched an idea...

But it's interesting you have a newspaper article which lists him as a Policeman - the prison records I can see (through the census) list him as Ships Carpenter! Which newspaper was it?

The whole family certainly lived an 'interesting' life so any story is possible as to where they went and what they did!

I think I have the right Margaret Winifred - baptised at Our Lady of Reconciliation de la Salette 6 Jun 1860. Born  27 May 1860. In 1861 she's on the Census at 55 Hedley Street. In 1871 at 78a Robsart St. Her Sister Sarah is a cap maker which I can trace throughout and it lists HDM the Father, a Ships Carpenter and Margaret from Ireland... Margaret Winifred marries a James Maher at St Augustines in Aug 1882.

I know what you mean about head spinning! It's so very frustrating as it always seems to be my 'true' blood line is the most difficult to prove but all the aunts, uncles and cousins etc are much easier!

Thank you again for taking a look - very much appreciated!
M

3
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck with a Mary Ann! London/Liverpool
« on: Friday 12 July 19 12:10 BST (UK)  »
Wow!

I am so very grateful to those taking the time to help me. So. From the info provided I have been able to establish that HDM born 1851 and Catherine Flora, are of the same family, are the right parents and interestingly, are both baptised at St Albans RC (along with 2 other siblings) yet are buried at St Anthonys RC. I have yet to confirm the birth records on GRO but did find a new spelling of McDonald on HDM's baptism - McDonold!! On both burial records the address is... Queen Street - the same Queen Street that is on HDM & Margaret's marriage cert in June 1849... Which is good. But...obviously throws up further questions!

So the timeline I sort of have now is:
HDM and Margaret marry 3 June 1849 at St Nicholas Church, Liverpool - which is a CoE!!  ??? HDM a 'Shipwright' Both families in Queen St, Liverpool. (Parents home?)

Mary Ann is born 2 Feb 1850 and baptised RC in Stepney. (Where did you find those records from? Thank you SO much!)

30 March 1851. The Census shows Margaret and Mary Ann at 5 House 7 Court, Avery Farm Row, St George Hanover Square, Middlesex, England. Margaret a Dressmaker from Ireland. Is married, but no husband present. Mary Ann listed as having been born 'Pimlico, London.'

The 1851 Census also throws up a Henry McDonald, a Ships Carpenter born Lochgilpead, Scotland who is a Prisoner at  House of Correction, Cold Bath Fields, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England.

Yet we know, on 1st Oct 1851, their son HDM is born in Liverpool and baptised RC.

** I'm tempted to think maybe the whole London thing is a red herring with Mary Ann. However, the new found baptism records for her and the fact that I can find her with her family up in Liverpool and over the decades Census consistently states either Middlesex/London as her place of birth, makes me believe she was born there and HDM and Margaret did spend time there. The 1851 Census for both of them, ties in too. **  ???

But why would they marry as CoE?!

Thank you everyone. It also helps to go over details when typing them!
M



4
Hi MaxD,

Not at all - glad you posted as I'll need to contact them I think! In the past couple of years I discovered my real maternal Grandfather. He was quite some character and possibly kicked out of the RAF after WW2! I found him in headlines of the local rag for example!  :D

Anyway, I sent off for his records out of curiosity and got an outline of his flying records (well, as much as they could give me out of GDPR/Data Protection rules!) But they informed me also that. if I wanted to look for the interesting stuff, I'd need to access records at Kew... I haven't picked up the thread much since then (work and family preventing me following this line further!) I had assumed the next stage would have been straightforward - to head to Kew, whenever I could! Clearly I need to dig out the paperwork I have and contact somebody!

Thanks MaxD
M

5
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck with a Mary Ann! London/Liverpool
« on: Friday 12 July 19 09:27 BST (UK)  »
Thank you all.

Garstonite - thanks. In 1871 she is in New York with her first husband Edward Rogers we think. She definitely has 2 daughters in NY - Myra and Alice, and has a son Henry Patrick Rogers who we think was born in Lpool Jul 1869 (but on the Dec 1870 USA Census, he appears to be listed as born NY.) Edward dies of Yellow fever in 1876 but the family seem to be back in the UK then anyway.

the Pimlico link comes from the 1851 Belgrave district Census in London.

My gut feeling is a 'snapshot' of info I have is wrong somewhere. My frustration is that because of the MMN Carragher and such huge variations of spellings with that and McDonald, I can't locate anything like a 'Carragher' through GRO anywhere in the country over about a 5 year span! I think the nearest I could get was a Cradock in 1850 Liverpoo for a Mary McDonald. Which I suppose is a distinct possibility...

Thank you so much.
M

6
Thank you so much Max D for taking a look. Suppose I was asking too much for records to survive! I have an outstanding need to visit Kew on my 'wish list' regarding my recently discovered Grandfather who was an RAF chappie in WW2 so maybe, I'll gather as much info as I can and take that trip to Kew...one day anyway....!

Thanks again - much appreciated!
M

7
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Stuck with a Mary Ann! London/Liverpool
« on: Thursday 11 July 19 21:24 BST (UK)  »
Hi Radcliff.

Yes, this is her. She also had sisters; Sarah McDonald born 1852 - MMN Craddock, Martha Jane born 1857 MMN Caraher and Margaret Winifred MMN Carrier!  Despite the spellings they have been proved the same family!  ::)

M

8
Hi Max,

He could have been a 'Henry McDonald' dropping the Duncan in youth. Some Census info drops the Duncan, but I can still be certain it is him.

 His prison record is a HM rather than HDM. With Census, dates, family ties etc I'm sure without certain it's him in 1841 St Martin in the Fields. What I can 100% be certain of is his Father is definitely one Malcolm McDonald, an 'Army Officer' when Henry marries in Liverpool in June 1849. he is definitely Scottish too!

Of course, I understand that on marriage certificates sometimes the Fathers details look as though they are living, when in fact they had died. But assumed this was more for respectability on the Brides side rather than Groom...? So, the assumption is that Malcolm was in Liverpool when they married. I can't find Malcolm on a Liverpool Census for either 1841/1851, but could find a 'tie' to 1841 Scottish Census with him an Army pensioner in Inverness...

Would it have been normal to leave the Army and become a Ships Carpenter?

Thanks for taking a look.
M

9
Hi there.

Thanks for taking a look at this post! I'm trying to prove / find out more, about my 4th and 5th great Grandfather's military details. I use Ancestry but find it really very hard to get to grips with military records as I know so little about them.

I would like to know more about their military side for interest but also, in the hope it may shed further light on locations, next of kins etc.


Henry Duncan McDonald.
Born circa 1823, possibly in Lochgilpead, Scotland.
In 1841 I *think* he is at St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex and is a Soldier in 2nd Battalion Fusilier Guards. (I take it St Martin in the Fields was a barracks?)
By 1849 he is in Liverpool, as he marries a Margaret Robinson and is now a Shipwright - something he remains all his life. He is literate (can write his name.)

Malcolm McDonald
Born circa 1799, possibly in Inverness. His Mother is possibly an Anabella...
In 1841 he is listed as living with his (assumed) Mother in Kilmallie, Inverness as an 'Army Pens' (Pensioner?)
In 1849 he is in Liverpool (assuming he is alive) and is listed as an 'Army Officer' on his Son Henry Duncan's marriage cert.


I wouldn't begin to know wars that were being fought, religions likely to have been followed etc. I know nothing of Malcolm's military history other than his title on his Son's marriage cert. It's a really poor area of background knowledge for me to be honest.

Any thoughts that can broaden my knowledge of this line would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
M




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