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Messages - Albufera32

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1
Armed Forces / Re: Dvr William Hancock, KIA 1940, Singapore Memorial
« on: Tuesday 17 December 24 14:08 GMT (UK)  »
I am not sure if you have information about the Hofuku Maru, but in case you don't, she was sunk by American carrier aircraft when the convoy she was with was attacked and all eleven ships in the convoy sunk. Of the 1,289 British and Dutch prisoners on board 1,047 died.

The National Archives include a document described as "Far East: deaths of prisoners of war; sinking of SS Hofuku Maru, 21 September 1944, off Manila; sinking of SS Lisbon Maru, 1 October 1944" which can either be viewed at the National Archives or downloaded from Findmypast. I assume it is essentially a list of the names of those lost, but there may be more information there.

2
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: DNA ethnicity question
« on: Thursday 12 December 24 20:53 GMT (UK)  »
This is my attempt to explain how the Ancestral Regions work (and obviously is my interpretation of Ancestry's explanation).

The first thing to understand is that there is no such thing as "German" DNA, any more than there is English, Scottish or Irish DNA. All there is, is DNA which is more or less prevalent today in people with Scottish, Irish, German or English descent.

The second thing is to consider what Ancestry actually does - which may not be quite what the marketing blurb sometimes suggests.

What Ancestry does, is form reference panels of, in their words "people with deep family roots in a specific geographic area or cultural group". What that means is they use people whose families can be shown to have lived in a particular region for several generations. So their German reference panel (which at 2000 members is the same size as the Scottish and Irish reference panels) consists of people who have established roots living in Germany for several generations.

They then analyse the DNA of the people in the reference panel, measure the percentages of people who have each of 1001 separate segments, and use these percentages to decide on the "origin" of any particular segment.

Let us call one of these segments the "Abba" segment. It turns out the Abba segment is quite common in the Scottish reference group - about 40% say. It is also quite common in Germany (let's say 38%) and Norway (62%), but as I'm sure you've guessed already, I'm going to make this particular segment most common in Sweden (75%, say). (Just in case it's isn't obvious, I'm making these numbers up, I have no idea what typical ranges they get.) The point is, now that they have have measured the percentage abundance of the said segment, the "Abba segment is now categorised as "Swedish".

Now they analyse my DNA. It turns out I have the said Abba segment, so Ancestry now allocates 1 of my 1001 segments as Swedish. This does not mean I must have gained that segment from a long lost Swedish ancestor - it just means I have a particular segment of DNA which is more common NOW in people whose families lived in Sweden for several generations in the past than in any of their other reference groups.

Should Ancestry find 10 such "Swedish" segments, that is 10/1001, ie roughly 1% so it now classes me as 1% Swedish. BUT, because each of those MAY in fact be from Scottish ancestors given that, as with my earlier example of my entirely fictitious Abba segment, those segments may also be relatively common here in Scotland, they put an error range of between 0 and 1% on my Swedish ancestry.

Given that the UK has during it's history been invaded by Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings from various parts of Scandinavia as well as Norman French, has provided refuge to many exiles from religious or other forms of prosecution, and has in turn fought over or invaded large parts of the globe, it is perhaps not surprising that we share a lot of those segments with many other groups.

What all that means is that what used to be called ethnicity estimates are just that - glorified guesses based on statistics and probability - which only indicate that you share DNA with people whose ancestors are from a particular region in the past. If you want the fuller picture look at the ranges on the given identified regions.

Most importantly, always remember that DNA is only one more piece of evidence that might link you to a given ancestor.

3
The Lighter Side / Re: Stupid Ancestry hint
« on: Thursday 12 December 24 20:12 GMT (UK)  »
As I understand it, Ancestry uses essentially the same search/match methodology as Google - it suggests a hint which another user thought was accurate and linked to someone with the same details as you. So if another Ancestry user has attached that particular document to a person in their tree that has similar details to your person, the hint system will highlight it as a hint for your person too.

I believe it also attaches as a hint any document which another user has added to their tree to a person in their tree who also has a document which you have added to a person in your tree.

The problem, of course, is that this method only provides useful hints if the original user only attaches documents which are in some sense "correct" and as we all know, that is not always the case. Unfortunately this tends to compound the problem where people blindly accept hints thinking it is some clever system that finds the documents that do relate to the person in your tree, resulting in errors being magnified by being copied into multiple trees - which makes them even more likely to appear as hints elsewhere.

Technically speaking, the CS person is correct in the sense that Ancestry didn't glitch in providing that particular hint (assuming someone has added it to a person similar to your "Iris Spencer"). Strictly speaking the hint system has worked the way it is meant to work. On the other hand, common sense suggests they would have wiser to agree with your point that the hint was clearly wrong in this case.

4
The Lighter Side / Re: Culloden aftermath
« on: Monday 09 December 24 16:39 GMT (UK)  »
The name MacGregor was proscribed in the early part of the 17th century, by James VI - it had nothing whatsoever to do with Culloden. Charles II restored the use of the name, but it was once again proscribed by William of Orange in 1693. Grant was one of several Clan names adopted by members of the MacGregor Clan. The name MacGregor was eventually restored in 1784.

Culloden was also nothing to do with "Scotland vs England" it was the culmination of a dynastic struggle between the Catholic Stuarts and the Protestant House of Hanover. (Though the Hanoverian claim to the throne also descended through the Stuart line, a historical fact frequently forgotten.) Culloden is more accurately described as the final full scale battle of the catholic vs protestant struggle which raged throughout the British Isles (just as it did in most of Europe) for the better part of 250 years. Scots and English fought on both sides, though there were only small numbers of English Catholics that rallied to Bonnie Prince Charlie (that being one of the main reasons the '45 failed).

5
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Ancestry 2024 results changing
« on: Monday 11 November 24 11:42 GMT (UK)  »
I suspect there has been a glitch in the allocation of the sub regions, which Ancestry are trying to fix in the background.

My own sub regions initially came out as the North Highlands, Northern Islands and the Isle of Man (I think). The Isle of Man and Northern Islands had gone by the next morning. Today, I notice that I am back to a subregion of Scottish Highlands and Central Lowlands, which given that my family are pretty much universally from Ayrshire, Argyll, West Lothian, Stirlingshire and Lanarkshire seems a reasonable fit.

I will freely admit to being one of those who regarded "ethnicity" as little more than an amusing conversation piece, and I would still argue that DNA companies offering to find "Neanderthal" or "Viking" DNA are bordering on fraudulent, but upon reading the explanations provided by Ancestry I am confident that whilst far from perfect, the results do predict pretty accurately what the science part says they do.

In fairness, it must be said, Ancestry are hardly guiltless here, since the problem is most people think the ethnicities (or Ancestral Regions as they are now) represent something entirely different than they actually do because of the marketing campaigns. Ultimately, Ancestry, just like it's competitors, is a business, so of course they do things in part to sell kits and or subscriptions, but sometimes that gets in the way of what many of us think should be their primary concern which is the genealogy. I for one could do without the traits in their entirety, but I recognise why Ancestry are devoting time and effort to adding them.

Returning to the Ancestral Regions, what I would say is this. In researching our trees, we all know the perils of copying other people's research and accepting it as accurate without going to the source material. We all share a rather scathing view of those who seem more interested in "filling" their tree than checking for accuracy. I suggest that in understanding the validity of DNA results the same approach applies. Go to the source or simply copy each other's scepticism.

Ancestry provides lengthy and detailed descriptions of how they assemble their results and what they actually mean. If after reading the source material you still think it is all just smoke and mirrors, fine. After all, we all know some statutory registers are a little economical with the truth, so not all source material is accurate.

Or don't bother. Just the next time you sneer at someone's unsourced tree, take a moment to think - am I really any different?

6
The Lighter Side / Re: My DNA from that well known website!!
« on: Monday 04 November 24 22:43 GMT (UK)  »
You see the exact size of all the reference groups on Ancestry.

Most European ones are 2000.

Cornwall is one of the new regions added in the last update.

Whilst some of the marketing waffle is just that - blurb to sell more kits,it isn't all total rubbish.
If you go onto Ancestry and read how the assignment of regions is done (written by the science people not the marketing ones) it makes much more sense. What that also does is tell you what it really means.

My regions for example are (circa Jul 2024)

 85% Scotland, 10% Ireland, 2% Iceland, 2% France and 1% Norway.

What that actually means is that 85% of the DNA segments Ancestry uses to define ancestral origins is more common in the Scottish Reference panel than any other. 10% is most common in the Irish panel than any other regional panel, and so on.

The 2% Iceland is new (as it is for everyone, it was only added with this update). Because it is new, the Iceland Reference panel isn't as large as most of the others, so a small group with similar DNA can have a disproprtionate effect on the results. So what does my  2% Iceland really mean?

It doesn't mean I "2% Icelandic." It doesn't even mean that segment is more common in Iceland than elsewhere. It just means that a small part of my DNA is more common in the reference panel for Iceland  than anywhere else. That's all.


7
FH Documents and Artefacts / Re: Census - are they dittos or not?
« on: Monday 04 November 24 19:52 GMT (UK)  »
For the children of Eli Halliwell, there appear to be three sons, the first of whom is john, listed as a cotton weaver with "do" for the next two sons. As mentioned above, the thick black line is a check mark, not  scoring out, so the two younger sons are indeed also cotton weavers.

I think this may be what you are asking about.

You replied while I was posting. I see you meant different people.  As far as I can see the two names you mentioned do indeed have no occupation listed.

8
The Common Room / Re: Revised birth details
« on: Saturday 02 November 24 13:37 GMT (UK)  »
A birth certificate (amended or otherwise) is simply an extracted copy of the original birth register.

For a purchased certificate to be amended, the original register would also have to have been amended - and the record of that change or "correction" would be held alongside the original register, in the GRO or GROS as appropriate.

9
The Common Room / Re: Trying to make contact
« on: Saturday 02 November 24 01:03 GMT (UK)  »
So far as I am aware, I am not linked to any of the names listed in O/P's list under their posts, at least not at the locations listed. I do have Browns and Wilsons in my tree, but mostly from the mining communities of the Scottish central belt.

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