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Messages - MeirSoul

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Travelling People / Re: the impact of the industrial revolution *COMPLETED*
« on: Thursday 18 January 24 16:29 GMT (UK)  »
over and over again when iv been researching my mums side of the family ( some have romany ancestry)
iv been astonished at how many families with romany names/ancestral ties and occupations all seem to have settled in the same inner city areas, the same streets and then married into each others families ,
 iv noticed this especially  in parts of birmingham , durham and the north of england
during the industrial revolution as farming became mechanised, ag lab jobs became fewer and goods that would previously have been hand made and hawked became mass produced ,i guess , like millions of others in the uk at that time  ,  many romany families had little choice but to move into the industrial areas to settle and  work in order to provide for their families
the industrial revolution had such a huge impact on this country that i cant see how it could have failed to impact on the romany community  too ,
just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on this 

Yes. Most of my romany ancestors seem to be living in settled community houses by the 1800s in the potteries (stoke on trent) area

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Wednesday 17 January 24 10:05 GMT (UK)  »
George and William are probably brothers and using the same naming system.
The baptism for Richard may not have been transcribed yet, or it may not be available. Have you tried the Staffordshire Family History Society to see if they transcribe records that have not been forwarded to the large search providers. His marriage names George as father, which for most seems sufficient. When going back so far, definitive proof is difficult to find, especially with travellers. Once all avenues have been checked, it might now be a waiting game.

I hadn't seen his father listed as George for his marriage I must hsbf missed it. I'll check it out . Thanks

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Wednesday 17 January 24 09:14 GMT (UK)  »
Listed as Florance on the 1841 Census
District Stourbridge . Household 762890 . Halesowen, Shropshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio 908/10 . Book 6 . Page 12

If Mary married Thomas Rudge in 1850, also named on the same census, it must be a different Mary Florence, which would explain the mmn.

I managed to find it in the end . I think that particular Mary Florence is the daughter of William and Lucy Florence.  They all seem to be linked though and of Romani extraction.  Still struggling to find the confirmed parents of Richard. I've seen a few trees that state George Florence and Ann Bailey as parents which does make sense but I've not seen any documents or proof to fully confirm it.

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Wednesday 17 January 24 01:34 GMT (UK)  »
The census was 1841 when she was 20 and had a daughter Ellen. Ellen was registered Rudge with mmn Florence, but they were not married. Five years later Mary married John Lockett. Name and age fit, with Ellen previously used in the Florence family. It seems to be the right person.

I can't seem to find that on the 1841 census, but I can see that a Mary Florence married Thomas Rudge in 1850 in Halesowen. I'll look again tomorrow with fresh eyes.

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Wednesday 17 January 24 00:51 GMT (UK)  »
All Saints Parish Register Dilhorne Staffordshire . 18
Marriage 20 May 1816
Richard Florence (Dilhorne) . Amelia Ward (Dilhorne)
Witnesses: John Whalley . John Newbury
Notes: Groom, Bride And Witness 2 All Sign X

1851 Census: Stoke on Trent
Richard Florence . 55 (1796) . Tinman . Tutbury, Staffordshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio 2006 / 271 . Page Number 10

Christening: Mary Florence . 21 May 1820
Newport, Shropshire
Parents: Richard and Emily Florence

Amelia, Emily and Ann could be the same person.

Are you responsible for a tree on Family Search?
It was created by GrewSharonLesley1 with a contact email address.
It gives parents George Florence and Ann Bailey with marriage 30 October 1780 in Leigh, Staffordshire. No baptism details for Richard, but it does list siblings and children.

In 1841, was Mary with the Rudge family in Halesowen, Shropshire and has a daughter Ellen Florence?
Stourbridge . Household Identifier 762890
HO107 . Piece/Folio 908/10 . Page 12 . Book 6

Ellen Rudge . mmn Florence 
Apr-Jun 1841 . Stourbridge Union . Volume 18 . Page 447

Did Mary go on to marry John Lockett?
Marriage: 09 Feb 1846 . Keele, Staffordshire
Mary Florence . Full . Knutton . John Lockett . Full . Knutton
Father: Richard Florence
Spouse's Father: Henry Lockett

Yes Mary Florence did marry John Lockett in 1846 at Keele. I don't think the Mary  in the 1851 census is the same person because Mary and John are both living together in Newcastle under Lyme (near keele) in the 51 census. Although in the 51 census has Mary's year of birth as 1825 instead of 1820.

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 22:39 GMT (UK)  »
Which of his children are you descended from?  Please give name/birthyear/birthplace

I'm descended from Richards daughter Mary Florence,  born 1820 in Newport Shropshire.

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 22:08 GMT (UK)  »
From FreeBMD, not Richard but do you have this one?
All Saints Parish Register Church Leigh Staffordshire
Baptism 25 Dec 1783 . Susannah Florence . Female
Parents: George and Ann Florence

Between Stoke and Uttoxeter rather than Burton. It seems to be the couple as there are so few in Staffordshire. There are two other baptisms in Uttoxeter Ann and Alice Florence on 28 Jan 1779 with parents John and Alice Florence.

Yes I've seen that one and a few more children fron george and Ann.  All born near Burton-upon-Trent or stoke on trent but I'm struggling to find Richard

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 22:06 GMT (UK)  »
Wife is Ann on 1851 census.  There are  2 x Richard Florence of similar age & both have a wife Ann & a daughter Emma.  The other Richard was b Hampshire

Yes I'm wondering whether Ann was actually another wife as Richard married Amelia (emily) Ward  I'm 1816. Unless it's a different Richard altogether

Travelling People / Re: Richard Florence Father
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 21:00 GMT (UK)  »
I suspect George Florence and Ann Bailey to be Richards parents but don't have any solid records or evidence to back that up.

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