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Messages - TheWhuttle

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Antrim / Re: Eliza Jane Harkness Married John Quirey 1883
« on: Tuesday 24 November 20 01:26 GMT (UK)  »
Hi sjgrace53,

You gave me a giggle with your (Deliberate? Dark humour?) "mistake".
[Or were you simply failing to master an "intelligent" I-Paddy like me?!]

I've dragged myself from my sick bed to reply.
["Man marries defiantly in to family ... Mother-in-law present at death." Brilliant!]

Also, "Lilliput" is the correct spelling for the street incorporating the separate residences of John & Elizabeth.
[It is, of course, named after the fictitious island country created by Jonathan Swift.
 He was the (in)famous Dean of St. Patrick's (CoI) in Dublin.
  Such was apparently inspired by his visit to a country house near a lough in county West Meath.
  It had associations with St. Patrick' sister "Lilipat" (?).
 There he observed "little" people across the other side of the lough ..."  Click!
 This inspired the creation of his great literary work "Gulliver's Travels" in 1726.
 This was his great "piss take" (er, satire/parody) of society & politics of the time.
 As such he was expressing his frustration at being "exiled" from his beloved England.
 Such caused by his Tory "high heelers" stance rather than adhering to Whig "low heelers" ideals.
 George I became King in 1714, after Queen Anne's death, surrounding himself with Whig advisers.]


Looking at a map of Belfast, Lilliput Street is located just off (South) of Limestone Road.
It is not very long ... How did it manage to incorporate 48 (at least) houses?
[Did some wit name it thus, or was it "designed" for the Hoi-Poloi, with a certain "Je ne avais quoi"? Hopefully not a shared (outside) toilet!
 In modern day parlance, such would be known as "social housing".]

It is close to the Eastern end of Limestone Road, before it joins York Road (?Now York Street).
Just down (Southward) York Road, past Hanna St., is St. Paul's CoI church (now St. Paul's & St. Barnabas).
[So it can only have been a few skips and a wee jump for them to get to the marriage venue!]

Opposite is the "York Road" railway station.
This was created as the terminus of the Ballymena-Belfast Railway Company's effort in 1848.
Such railway was extended through Coleraine to Derry in 1855.

Nearby (SE) to the station is the the Whitla St. Fire Station (created 1895).

A (small) tad further East are the docks, leading out to the sea via the Herdman, Victoria & Musgrave channels.


I'd interpret John QUIREY's profession (on the transcribed marriage record)  as "Seaman".

Possibly his father William might have been a "Fireman" in the modern sense ("bee, baw, bee, baw").
[Assuming such was around ad hoc before the creation of the formal fire station.]

However, I'd vote for him being a fire stoker aboard steam ships or steam trains.
Most probably the latter.
[Hmm, if he was in employment with the Railway company, and had so been for a protracted time (e.g. > 30 years) then he might have been entitled to a "long service watch" and (unusually for the time) a company pension.
Records are in PRONI.
Success depends on company & timeframe.
I helped someone with this a long while back ...]


You will not find any civil records of births before 1864.
So must chase church records.

? Start at the obvious (St. Paul's).

However, be aware that Belfast was boom town in the late 19thC.
Folks came from all over, due to the industrial revolution.
Steam engines removed the reliance on gathering power via water wheels from streams.
So manufactures could be located close to large conurbations / (ex)ports / (im)ports (esp. coal).


I know the HARKNESS name personally from Aberdeen.
Many folks marched (arm-in-arm-and-off-we-go) from there (after disastrous famines) to Ulster (particularly Ballymena, which had many fast flowing streams) following King James' 1605 deal with the Earl of Antrim.

Later events record folks of that name from Ayrshire occupying prominent roles in the Scottish Covenanting army of the 1640s.  Such ravaged Aberdeen ( a "High Tory" Episopalian city).
Many were later (1680s) executed in Edinburgh, following The Restoration, during "The Killing Times", having been concentrated in to captivity within the graveyard of Greyfriar's Kirk, the venue within which "The National Covenant" had been signed many years earlier.
[The Covenanters are otherwise known as (even more) Reformed Presbyterians.
 About as far, then, from High Episcopalianism (favoured by the Royals) as could be achieved within "Christianity".]

Other HARKNESSes, from Dumfrieshire, went in to Ulster, but eventually settled at Garryfine in county Limerick.
Still there today, apparently.


Enough (6 hours) for the noo.
References, etc. 2moz.

[Perhaps I will tell you my 19-Corvids joke.  Expect it will go viral soon!]

Take care.

Capt Jock

Antrim / Re: FAIRLEY & WHITTLE of Lisburn 18thC
« on: Friday 30 October 20 12:35 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Doublebassy,

Welcome aboard young sailor!
[Looking forward to hearing your music - no doubt inspired by "Master & Commander"!]

Very keen to hear more of your genealogical interest.

My main WHITTLE family driver was "Sally" a fine old Southern States lady from Virginia.
[Last I heard she was sinking fast, and had passed over FT command to a Niece.]

From memory, the Hans name came in with the Georgians, following the demise of the Stewarts.
Recall that the family of Hans SLOANE, founder of the British Museum in London, were landholders in the area of Co. Down near Lisburn.

I'm a tad tied up immediately, finalising my dear auld Daddy's transition out of the Given Paradise.
Anecdotes/Ulsterisms filling my brain - must write them down!

Will respond more next week. Promise.

Capt Jock
[Trawler of the murky depths.]

Antrim / Re: Killead: question about marriage record
« on: Monday 10 August 20 00:55 BST (UK)  »
The 1841 & 1851 censii required all members of the household who would normally have been resident, but who were "temporarily" absent on the night, to be listed.  Such info was listed on a secondary page of the return form.
[More precisely, see instructions for completing Table 2, as presented in the PDF posted earlier by jonw65.]

Their geographical location if "offshore" only required the country name to be indicated.
[Even if within the UK (viz. "England", "Wales", ""Scotland").
 N.B. "America" might mean "(British) America" (aka contemporary "Canada").]

Given the timing (immediate post-famine) it is likely that they were farmed out as indentured servants (labourers of-whatever-sort usually), possibly through family contacts, for a fixed term (typically 7 years).
[Canada was promoted as a more patriotic destination to choose for British emigrants, following the successful conclusion (from the British view) of the 1812 war with the new Americans. William WHITLEY (for the colonies) & the great chief TECUMSEH (for the British) supposedly co-annialating themselves at the great battle of the Thames River.]

However, many indentured servants subsequently chose to move South (to the warmth!) once their terms were complete.

The "flying evil" might be a disease spread by creeping bugs e.g. Bubonic plague or Lyme's (Hmmm...).
[Searched "Old Disease Names" without result. names.htm ]

However, it might refer to Cholera, the scourge of the early/mid 18thC.
Folklore wisdom allocated it's cause (infection vector) to be air-borne.
So, attempts to control it involved lighting tar barrels in the street.
[Such to "sour" the air.]

Totally useless, it was a water-borne bacteria.
So simply boil all water before imbibing! Preferably, drink beer!
[Sad, sad, sad - from our retrospective viewpoint .
 Science caught up later ...]

Capt Jock

Antrim / Re: My Taylor line was from Antrim County Ireland
« on: Tuesday 16 June 20 16:23 BST (UK)  »
Hi tennfan,

You could try checking out this topic:

Perhaps try contacting Wyanga via PM.
[She was last active in February, but you'd better be quick ...]

I contributed some generic stuff there on the possible origins of the name & people.

Capt Jock

Antrim / Re: Looking for information on Charles Dickey of Millmount
« on: Friday 12 June 20 23:46 BST (UK)  »
Yes, the apostrophe has a rich history.
Its graphic is strictly upright.

Its two immediate cousins (acute & grave) are a tad more tiddly!
Normally used as diacritics (meant to be written as modifiers above underlying characters) they can also appear as separate characters in their own right.

Particularly so as outputs in transcribed texts.
Especially in computer-graphic-scanned/automatically-"interpreted" productions.

Check out, or NOT!
The standards evolved with the years, and implementations (e.g. ISO character tables) varied across computing platforms (Apple, Microsoft, DEC, IBM, BELL "UNIX"...), creating a huge cross-industry reconciliation problem of the versions levels.
[I worked alongside international language experts at Rank Xerox International once.
 Mind blowing stuff.]

The Republic within Ireland banned the use of the "grave" diacritic within Irish Gaelic in 1948.
[No doubt inspired by the rationalisations of the "English" language effected much earlier in the USA.]

I recall chasing a "M'" record once (which I "knew" must be in the online record) to no avail.
Then I put on my "alternative thinking" cap, and tried the "grave" character.
Top left of the keyboard. Bingo!
[Simpler method nowadays, supported by most browser searches, just use a "?" or two, or "*".]

I used to tease my erstwhile old mate, Mr. McHale, that he couldn't take the Mick out of me.
[I'm descended from an O'Hale!]


Alternative record resource is the Tenison GROVES archive at PRONI.
He was a Record Agent (sort of legal secretary) based in Belfast.
He travelled to Dublin and transcribed many relevant records relating to folks in the North.

His productions are held/indexed (transcribed?) by PRONI.
They are also available on LDS microfilms.
A few are typewritten, but many are in awkward-to-interpret scriptive writing.


Interesting to see your links with the Channel Islands.
Then, as now, 'Twas a lovely place to live, and also a tax haven!
Ideal place for pensioners (annuitants) to retire.
['Tis why major manufacturers, with links to the continent (e.g KEILLER marmalade, of Dundee), migrated their operations to there. Superb hub from which to access the furthest reaches of "The Empire".]

We had DIGMAN mariners/victuallers in St. Peter Port on Guernsey till around 1865.
Don't know why they went there.
[Though I did find two records of ships sailing direct from Guernsey landing cider at Belfast in the 1790s.]

Pip pip!
Capt Jock

Antrim / Re: McKinney Carrickfergus
« on: Sunday 24 November 19 23:42 GMT (UK)  »
MURRIE. A Perthshire surname, a form of MURRAY.

MURIE, MUIRY. Local, from Murie in the parish of Errol, Perthshire.
John MURIE and Andrew MURIE from Glendevon, exiled Covenanters, were drowned off Orkney, 1679.
[Hanna, II, p.253]
John Muirie of Path of Strouiehill,  1757 (Dunkeld).


Ref: The Surnames of Scotland
Their Origin, Meaning, and History
George F. Black. PH. D
ISBN 1 874744 83 1
BIRLINN, Edinburgh  1996
pps 620-621

Antrim / Re: McKinney Carrickfergus
« on: Wednesday 20 November 19 02:32 GMT (UK)  »
Does Kati-Kati (about 30 miles from the port of Taurango) feature in your family history?

A John A. McKINNEY (1837-1922, wife isabella BURNEY) sailed aboard the "Lady Jocelyn" (2,0000 tons, finest ship afloat) out of Carrickfergus on 20-05-1878 with 378 passengers, destined for the second STEWART settlement in NZ.
[Were they the first McKINNEYs in these pioneering NZ settlements?
 Were your folks (emigrating the following year) related? Such was common.]

They delivered 5 children to the NZ shore.
Jane, Sarah, male, male, baby.
Then procreated further - John Barkeley McKINNEY (26-dec1879) and William Hugh McKINNEY (21-Feb-1883).

John was a farmer, but was subsequently invited to be the local Minister.
[This was after the death of the Reverend MARKS.
 He had been sent out by the General Assembly of Belfast with the first settlement.
 such expedition with 238 folks aboard the "Carisbrooke Castle" of 1,400 tons
 leaving Belfast on 18-jun-1875 and arriving Auckland 08-sep1875.]

I'd not worry too much about the "villain" label.
In the context in which such occurred, such folks were also known as "folk heroes"!

[Folks did not own their land "holdings" - such were only rented from the "landlords".
 Usually for a limited period.
 Rents & fines (payable on renewal) were hiked up in the 1770s, whereupon many folks emigrated (mainly to the Americas at that time).
 Such was one of the main drivers of the 1798 Rebellion.
 The situation got even worse in the late 19thC as estates became encumbered with debts and pension-liabilities.
 The local bigwig (Lord Donegall, family name CHICHESTER) sold off many of his holdings to  other bigwigs and middlemen who "racked up" the the rent to the end tenants.
 Later, he snuck round the side and (illegally) granted "perpetual" leases at nominal rents in order to raise cash. Such "ropey" deals destabilised land tenures further.]

Folks emigrating to OZ/NZ enjoyed the freedom of being granted ownership of their own lands there from the local Government (on payment of a once off charge), without any subsequent annual rent.

John was a brother of the famous local-to-Carnmoney genealogist William Fee McKINNEY. Carnmoney lies only 9 miles from Carrickfergus.
[Their father was Thomas George McKINNEY, whose mother was from a GEORGE family - such originating from Wales. He was resident at Burnt Hill, before buying Sentry Hill.]

John's sons "Joe" (Joseph McMCKINNEY) and "Jim" (William James McKINNEY) ended up in Oz, owning Kooba then Nangus on the Moorumbigee river.
They married respectively Elma and Effie MURRAY.


This info came from a small beautiful book:

William Fee McKinney
Of Sentry Hill: His family and friends
Mrs. I.R Crozier. 1985
Impact Printing, Coleraine
ISBN 0 948154 00 4
153pp, hard back

Good history in there about the MacKENZIE clan origins.
[Many were Gallwegians - residents of Galloway, from whence many plantation settlers originated.
 CJ: Though many lived on Uist, owned by "Lord Moray" at one time .... ]

They took part in the early 17thC STEWART Plantation of Ulster in Tyrone (some, no doubt, at the point of the new King James' boot). Then adopted the Jacobite cause later, scarpering back to Scotland in 1689, before scarpering back to Ulster after the 1715 defeat at Sherrifmuir by the Hanoverian forces.

James McKENZIE (with sword) arrived with his new 2nd wife Helen CAMPBELL (with cooking pot). They attended Carnmoney Pb church. Sons John (1719) and Andrew (1722) were born.  They lived at Burnt Hill, Ballyduff townland, Carnmoney.

James' father (name unknown) had rented lands much earlier from the STEWARTs of Killymoon castle, Cookstown, in Co. Tyrone.

The settlements in NZ were sponsored by George Vesey STEWART, son of Captain Mervyn STEWART of Moutray , Ballygawley, Co. Tyrone.  The lands at Kati-Kati were chosen for their ideal climate and rich easily-cultivated soil. Such proved very beneficial for the health & wealth of the emigrants.


Book is, sadly, no longer in print.
However, pretty sure that it can be requested on inter-library loan from
Linenhall Library, Belfast and/or British Library (repository, Boston Spa).]

Searched for LEGG within the book without success.
However, the other coincidences with your research seem manifest!

[CJ: MacKENZIE family reckoned to have been Gallwegians (residents of Galloway) latterly.
 However, IRC reckons (from research in copious historical tomes) that her ancestors were Highlanders from the lands of Avoch, with burials at nearby Beauly Priory. The clan held lands across the North of Scotland, from Lewis to the Black Isle, with seats at Eileen Donan, Brahan Castle, Castle Leod, Fairburn Tower. Principal burials were at Iona Abbey, Beauly Priory and the Canonry of Ross.]

The "Z" in the name only appeared in the mid-18thC.
The original Gaelic name is MacCONNIAGH.
Nearest pronounciation is McKINNIE (usually made M'KINNIE).
[Conniagh is, of course, Kenneth (as in Kenneth McALPINE, 1st King of Scots).]

Carrickfergus is only about 9 miles from the village of Carnmoney.
This is where a WFMcK's grandfather had his first holding, at the "Burnt Hill".
There must surely be a connection?!

Hopefully some of the this will strike a chord with you.

Capt Jock

P.S. OK, so youse knocked Ireland out of the World Rugby.
But we had the BEST man on the field!

Antrim / Re: Cochran Family from Templepatrick
« on: Saturday 08 June 19 20:33 BST (UK)  »
Hello JD (from a fellow JD!),

Henry COOKE was engaged as Minister at Donegore for a short period [1811-1818].
Unfortunately, perhaps because of his hectic political activities, some of the notebooks went astray at this time - so there are gaps in the records for that church during the early 18thC.
[e.g. Weddings 1808-1811 & 1812-1819]

I had a search of the 1st Donegore marriage register for you, but found no COCHRAN in the 19thC.
[N.B. Be aware that 2nd Donegore "up the hill" were a Seceding congregation ...]

You might also want to keep Carnmoney Pb in mind.
[... and perhaps even Ballycraigy Congregational ... but, er, its records are currently classified as "missing" ...]

Capt. Jock

Ref: The Parkgate Presbyterians
People and Kirk over Four Centuries
The First Donegore Story
Donald ALEXANDER  [ed. John HALL & Melodie NEAL]
First Donegore Press 2011  235pp

N.B. No mention of COCHRAN in the index.

Hi skilled photo restorers!  Hoping that you can help.

Relies have sent through a snapshot of a photo of Lieutenant Clarence "Clall" SHERLOCK who served in the Royal Canadian Air Force during WWI.  He was killed in a plane crash on 19-AUG-2018.

He lies buried among the privileged few in a small private sunken graveyard near the Thames river within the grounds close by Cliveden House near Maidenhead, Berks. in England.  We have just received many other photos of the funeral, at which Lady ASTOR was present.
[The ASTOR owners very kindly allowed the Canadian forces to operate a field hospital there during both World Wars.]

More can be read about him at .  We are (urgently!) preparing an extended article for CWGC, National Trust (and others).

He was the sweetheart of a family member (Jean Scott PARKINSON, grand-daughter of Jean WHITTLEY of Ballycraigy, Carnmoney near Belfast).  She was serving at the same time as a young nurse at Cliveden.  She was left broken-hearted when he died.
[However, she was instrumental in helping to save her severely wounded brother, whom she stumbled across lying on trolley outside, having been diagnosed as a "hopeless" case.  Luckily she knew the chief surgeon, who hailed from her home town in Canada, persuading him to have a second look. Very fortuitous!]


The attached PDF contains two photos, but we are only interested in the 2nd one of "Clall".
[The first is a postcard of Cliveden House.]

The problems needing addressed would seem to be:

1) Large stain centrally, near to face;

2) Background disturbance;
      [? stain from another photo, lying on "opposite" page within the album.]

3) Linear scratch across lower mid-to-right;

4) Missing corner (lower right);

5) Skewing (slight) of the whole photo.

Realise that this could be daunting creative challenge.

All help will be greatly appreciated (and acknowledged in the published articles, as desired).

Thanks in anticipation,

Capt Jock

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