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Messages - Caliandris

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1
FH Documents and Artefacts / Re: Marriage cert abbreviation "FWR"
« on: Wednesday 28 December 22 12:15 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much! I was on a different track altogether -military, railway... should have remembered to think local. I'm very grateful.

2
FH Documents and Artefacts / Marriage cert abbreviation "FWR"
« on: Wednesday 28 December 22 11:14 GMT (UK)  »
I have just received a marriage certificate for a marriage at St Mary's Nottingham which I couldn't find online. The rank or profession of father is given as F.W.R. (or just possibly F.W.N) for the father of the groom and F.W.K on the rank or profession of the bride's father. Maybe I am in a post-Christmas fog,but I cannot for the life of me make out what this is supposed to be. I've never come across it before. Rest of the certificate is as expected.

3
Hi there,
Thank you for your suggestion. I have been unable to find a marriage for any of the three brothers, and more than that, they all declare themselves to be single when they fill in the census. In the case of my direct ancestor Maria Elizabeth, she was registered as Jones in 1839, which is her mother's maiden name, although she was baptized as Hughes and named as Hughes on all of the censuses from 1841. I can only find her brother Charles Henry on the GRO index, who was also registered as Jones.

I cannot find the other children on the index, Henry because he was born in 1836 (I have his baptism, and he was baptized Henry Hughes) and I think they would all have been registered as Jones, as they definitely never married. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an explanation for why a middle-class, respectable family would have behaved this way.

4
Pembrokeshire / Re: St Mary's Tenby - graveyard transcriptions
« on: Wednesday 20 April 22 21:33 BST (UK)  »
No, that St Mary's is this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary%27s_Church,_Pembroke

He was 86! wow. 


5
I can see that might be in the case of a death, but would a vicar add a man to a birth record in his absence if alive?  I don't know whether they would have been worried about that, though it isn't possible to register a father's name without his presence for civil records. I know that one ancestor of mine was made to do penance in church in the 18th century in Devon, and she was made to recite her offence, which would have included the name of the man she was accused of fornication with - although no record of him being punished for the same offence seems to exist!

6
I would assume it might be because the father wasn't present? I guess the vicar would only put the father on record if the father were present and consented, like registration, but I don't know. Charles appears to take responsibility for all the children and certainly has them to live with him after the mother dies or moves, and makes arrangements for them to be supported, but I guess it's possible he may not have attended due to other commitments, or maybe he didn't think they were his?  None of it seems to make sense. 

7
If you look at the numbers on the rest of the census... I think it is 75. The ages were usually descending if you had a mother or father as the head of the family and then children, but it is very common to find that there is an elderly person in a family entry, who is older than anyone else. I did look at it again... I think it's 75 but I will have a go at it being 15.  I think Ann's father is Thomas Jones and not David, but I'm always prepared to be wrong!

8
I did wonder about the class prejudice thing... it just seems very strange to have multiple children with a woman and still not to marry her - even after both his parents had died.  Ann Jones is my 3x great grandmother, and Charles Henry Hughes my 3x great grandfather.  I have no hang ups about the children out of wedlock thing, just a great curiosity to know why they did this.

There were tales that Sir Lewis Morris was made to marry his partner despite her class being inferior to his, in order to be knighted and not embarrass the queen, but I am not sure the tale is true, as his children seem to be well within his marriage.

I'm confused about your information on Ann Jones.  I had assumed due to the relative ages, that Mary Jones (50) was the mother of Ann Jones, and Lettice Jones who is 75 years old on the census for 1841 might be Mary Jones's mother in law?  I am assuming you have misread the census to say 15 instead of 75 may be?  I have always assumed that she would have the married name of Jones and an unknown maiden name. There is another Lettice Jones next door or in the same house (hard to tell) but from a different family grouping, aged 55. I cannot know if that Lettice Jones is related to the other. Jones is a very common name, of course, and while Lettice isn't common, I have often found that an unusual name can become common in a specific area, because it has been used by other families in that area.

I have collected all the information I can gather in my Jones and Hughes and Spence disambiguation file, but they are families full of brick walls I feel I have little hope of demolishing because of the impossibility of knowing if that Jones over there has any relation to this Jones over here!

9
Normally a couple marries in the bride's parish church, or the larger diocese church to which the bride's church belongs.

It's noticeable that the sister married in her parish church/Welsh chapel but the three brothers seem to not have been married.

I think thebrothers all married but the respective brides' Welsh Chapel's records may not be widely available, or maybe not available at all.
I find GENUKI website useful.  Here's the Carmarthenshire county webpage and you may find the Genuki page for the family's home town can assist:

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN

No it isn't that - the "brides" all lived separately from their partners, and none of them used a married name at any time, and they answered "single" to the censuses.  I'm familiar with the tradition of marrying in the bride's parish, but that doesn't answer the question in this case.  It isn't just that I failed to find marriages, but the partners lived apart and the women said they were single edited to add (after fixing the weird quotation thing):- as did the men!


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