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Messages - wattnb

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Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Friday 29 June 18 19:01 BST (UK)  »
Hi Antigo,

I have the 1814 marriage record for Hugh and the following:

1815 birth record for John
1830 marriage records (2different towns)
1835 death record for Margaret
1851 census record (likely)
1857 death certificate
If you want any if these I will send

The 1835 newspaper report of Margaret´s death records him as a farmer.
The 1851 census says ‘retired farmer’. Interestingly he is called Mathew in this. I will send it.

I don´t have any proof of birth for any of them , only calculations from other documents.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Thursday 28 June 18 13:34 BST (UK)  »
I copied this from the internet a while ago:

The Reasons for the Scottish Migration to Ireland
During the 17th century, between 1605 and 1690, large numbers of Scottish lowlanders emigrated to Ulster in Northern Ireland. King James I of England sought to pacify the Irish by "planting" protestant English and Scottish settlers in Ireland beginning in the early part of the 17th century (see Ulster Plantation). The most successful efforts were carried out with settlers from the Scottish lowlands, who had both economic and religious reasons for emigrating to Ulster in large numbers. The economic reasons were dominant for the first 50 years and religion was the dominant reason for the next 30 years.
As described above, life was difficult enough in Scotland, but beginning with the introduction of the feu in the mid 16th century there were additional economic hardships. The feu is a feudal arrangement for leasing land. Unlike the traditional feudal arrangement in which the tenant gets the right to farm the land in return for service (both labor and military) and a share of the crop to the laird or landowner, the feu was a simple lease for money in which the tenant paid a fixed amount of rent. There was no obligation of service and the lease would last as long as the tenant continued to pay the rent. This was good for the landowner, because if provided a steady income, and the rents were usually higher. However, the result was that generally the lands were leased to the wealthier lairds who could afford the higher leases and the traditional tenants lost the lands that they had been farming for generations. These dispossessed tenants became either subtenants or laborers with a resultant loss of income and status. The Ulster Plantation, beginning in 1606, was an attractive opportunity for these dispossessed farmers. Ulster offered:
   •   Better land, more fertile and productive than any available in Scotland.
   •   Safety. The planters were to be protected by the English army-an attractive alternative to the decades of war with the English.
   •   The promise of peace and law
It was also close. Ireland is only about 15 miles away at its closest point, making the journey easy. (Note the plantation of Ireland occurred contemporaneously with the Jamestown settle in Virginia. Clearly, the journey from Scotland to Ireland was much easier than the trip across the Atlantic to Virginia.)

However a famine in Scotland, caused by crop failure in 1696-98, had a major impact in Ireland, causing Scottish Presbyterians to become an absolute majority in Ulster– where about 50,000 settled to escape hunger in their own country, joining the existing 100,000 strong Scottish community there.[26]”

This last bit is interesting!

I don´t think I have anything earlier than the headstone info and we don´t even know for sure that this is the right family. Its a while since I looked at this time period so I will go back through everything I have and double-check.

Did you see the piece I wrote in an earlier reply about Inch? It is near Killyleagh and there is also a Lundy presence there around 1800 with similar christian names. I´m fairly convinced that we should be looking in one of these two areas - Loughgilly or Killyleagh.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Wednesday 27 June 18 15:18 BST (UK)  »
Lunday                Hugh                 Loughgilly            Armagh
Lunday                James                Loughgilly            Armagh
Lunday                John                 Loughgilly            Armagh
Lunday                Robert               Loughgilly            Armagh

The above is from the 1796 Flax Growers list.
Google “Flax Growers list Armagh”

I also have information from a headstone in Loughgilly C of I graveyard that reads:

“This stone was erected by Robert Londy in memory of his father Hugh Londy who died May ye 3rd 1739 aged 41 years Also his wife Ann Londy died November 1760 aged 61 years Alos their daughter Sarah and said Robert Londy who died May ye 24 1774 aged 64 years Also Robert Lundy and John Lundy”

I put the Loughgilly reference based on the headstone on GenesReunited over 10 years ago and I have seen it reproduced elsewhere so don´t take it as gospel.
I don´t know about Agnes being the daughter of Robt Greer: I have never made that link.
The names are really consistent with our Lundies.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Tuesday 26 June 18 18:16 BST (UK)  »

I´ve not received any pms from you yet - maybe they need to be vetted ir something?

Anyway, yes I had the same thought about the family arriving with their parents but have not found any trace of them. Janet would have been 15, though and probably able to look after her younger siblings. Thomas had his first child in Galston in 1809. As you know, the records are not great before 1841. Maybe we could try the Galston Kirk Sessions. There may be some mention if the Sessions are available for early 1800.

I am also convinced about the move from Scotland during the plantation. Lundie is a popular name in Fife and Aberdeen around that time. Also they were Protestant. The christian names tally too.

Robert married Margaret Wallace in 1822 and had 3 children with her - John, Elizabeth and Isabella. However, my connection is through an illegitimate child called Robert Lundie he had with Annie Wallace (no relation) in 1823(the same year John was born to Margaret!). I can send you copies of certs etc. By 1841, Margaret was living in Kilmarnock with Isabella - Robert had died by then.

I have info for Caroline Ballantyne, including her death cert.

Thomas was acquitted. I have copies of the trial papers which I have transcribed. Will be happy to let you have a copy of this too. It does not give the actual trial event, just all the pre-trial statements.

*****Johnstone - Elisabeth Johnstone wife of Hugh Lundie Labourer died in Kirkton on the 3d & was buried 6th May 1828 This from the Fenwick Kirk Sessions.

I have an interesting problem with the Irish origin. James Lundie applied for Poor Relief. The Ayrshire Archive told me he was listed in their Records and place of birth was given as Inch. There are several places called Inch but the likeliest is in County Down. This conflicts with the Armagh given by Thomas in his statement. A friend is going to the Archive at Auchincruive to look at the actual records to see if there is any more info. There were Lundys also in County Down around Killyleagh about that time.

I am documenting all this here so it might help future readers.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Tuesday 26 June 18 07:22 BST (UK)  »
You should have enough posts soon for a pm lol!
The Lundies came to Scotland about 1805. I have documentary proof of that in the form of a trial declaration by one of the brothers, Thomas.

So there were  five brothers and at least one sister, Janet who married John Porter.
The brothers were Thomas, Hugh, Robert, John and James. According to the same trial declaration they came from Armagh.

Thomas was tried for rape and incest in 1824. After that, he and his children disappear apart from his son, Thomas who was sent to Tasmania for 7 years for robbery.

Hugh you know about - 3 wives and only two children I know of. His son John became a wealthy pawnbroker in Glasgow and left a decent will. Caroline died quite young.

Robert died around 1838 according to his wife´s Poor Relief statement. They had three children, one became a funeral undertaker.

James was a silk weaver and lived in Ardrossan. He married twice and had 2 children.

John, a cotton weaver lived in Galston for the rest of his life with Janet Taylor. They had several children.

I have death certs for Hugh, Janet, James and John as they died after registration was brought in in 1854. I have quite a bit on Hugh, Both Carolines and Caroline´s brother John.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Monday 25 June 18 19:07 BST (UK)  »
Are you descended from Caroline and James Allan Thomson?

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Monday 25 June 18 18:46 BST (UK)  »
Hi Antigo,

I have pm´d you.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Thursday 07 September 17 13:30 BST (UK)  »
Here´s a follow-up to this:

Ayr Advertiser 13th August 1835
MYSTERIOUS DEATH – About 3 o’clock of the morning of Monday 3d inst., Mrs. Lundy, wife of Hugh Lundy, farmer Fenwick, was missed from bed by her husband, who communicated the circumstances to his neighbours and commenced a search for her himself.  On failing to find her in the neighbourhood of her own dwelling, the search was abandoned, under the impression that, as she had for some days been purposing a visit to her mother’s house, she might have gone thither.  As the morning advanced, however, a labourer, who was proceeding to his work, discovered a corpse in the water of Fenwick, a short distance from Lundy’s house, which, with assistance, he drew out of the pool, and found to be that of the unfortunate woman.  The body was sunk by the bush of a cart-wheel tied to the neck by a rope.  A precognition has been taken by the civil authorities of the circumstances connected with this melancholy occurrence, which is to be forwarded to Crown Counsel.

The details were sent to Edinburgh to see if a case should be brought. So obviously they thought it was suspicious and not suicide. Hugh was in Glasgow by the following year so maybe he ran off. He was married again that year to Caroline Ballantyne.

Ayrshire / Re: Fenwick, Ayrshire - Was this murder?
« on: Saturday 08 April 17 17:24 BST (UK)  »
Trying to send you a file but it won´t load. If you let me have your email address I will send some of the trial papers I have transcribed for Thomas Lundie, Janet Porter´s sister.
Best wishes

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