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Messages - Malcolm173

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Monmouthshire / Re: Alfred Pope
« on: Wednesday 01 December 21 07:44 GMT (UK)  »
Well, thereís a unanimous verdict from the handwriting experts that it wasnít the same person who signed the two marriage certificates, so it looks as though the coincidences regarding the two Alfred Popes were no more than that.

Iím very grateful to everyone who helped look into this and particularly to wilcoxon for your suggestions as to how best to check this out and for the research you did on the second Alfred.


Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Comparison of Signatures
« on: Wednesday 01 December 21 07:40 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, thatís very clear and very helpful Ė many thanks for having a look at this.


Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Comparison of Signatures
« on: Tuesday 30 November 21 20:14 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks for your feedback about this.

The context is on another part of this site (John has provided the link above).  If the two Alfreds were the same person then it would have been bigamy.  Given the penalties they would be risking, I suppose itís possible that someone would want to change their signature in this situation, but Iíve no idea whether this would have applied in the 1870s!

I canít see any way proving that it was the same person, but it was worth having a look at these documents to see if they helped.

Monmouthshire / Re: Alfred Pope
« on: Tuesday 30 November 21 17:52 GMT (UK)  »
OK, many thanks.  I've posted it on there, so it will be good to see what they think!

Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Comparison of Signatures
« on: Tuesday 30 November 21 17:50 GMT (UK)  »
I donít know whether anyone can help with this.

Iím trying to find out whether a man called Alfred Pope, who was married to a Martha Good in 1863, was same man who married my great aunt, Kate Dunstan, in 1877.  I have copies of the parish records for both marriages and, although the signatures arenít the same, there are similarities.

Iíve attached a copy showing both and Iíd be grateful for opinions as to the likelihood of this being the same person.  I can provide a link to the two documents if that helps.

Many thanks


Monmouthshire / Re: Alfred Pope
« on: Tuesday 30 November 21 15:31 GMT (UK)  »
I've received the copy of the 1877 parish register with the marriage of Alfred Pope to Kate Dunstan.  I've taken a copy of Alfred's signature and added it to the other two on the attached document.

 We may need a graphologist to give an opinion!

Monmouthshire / Re: Alfred Pope
« on: Saturday 27 November 21 08:44 GMT (UK)  »
Those do look possible but it would make him rather old, as you say.

In Findmypast there's a parish record of a John Pope, widower, who married Elizabeth Watson, spinster, on 29th January 1832 at Alverstoke, which is across the water from Portsea.

Thereís a baptism record for an Elizabeth Watson on 3rd August 1796 in Portsea.  Parents David and Elizabeth.

There seem to be a lot of Popes in that area though!

The Gwent office says it has a copy of the parish registration of Alfred & Kate's marriage so I've ordered that and we can see if that helps at all (£12.25, so not too bad).

Monmouthshire / Re: Alfred Pope
« on: Friday 26 November 21 16:50 GMT (UK)  »
It's interesting to see all this, many thanks.

I've just searched the public trees on Ancestry and Emma is on the tree of a lady who says that Charles Hill disappeared - so even this side of the family has it's issues!  She says this:

"My uncle Donald A. Hill told me today that his grandfather told him that his father just disappeared one day in Chicago.  He told my uncle that possibly his father went to Australia because he had talked about it.  Meanwhile, his wife is listed in 1900 as a "widow" living with her youngest son and family.  In 1910 she is in the Hollenbeck Home in Los Angeles.  An interesting mystery should anyone want to try to solve it."

Hollenbeck Palms in Boyle Avenue in LA is still a retirement home.

This lady doesn't have Alfred in her tree.

Monmouthshire / Re: Alfred Pope
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 14:46 GMT (UK)  »
That's brilliant, thank you for looking all this up!  I knew Alfred had a sister because she was baptised at the same time as he was.  This is the extract from the record:

Pope, Emma – father: John – mother:  Elizabeth – baptism:  1841 Aug 15- comment: 5 years old – St. George’s Parish 

Pope, Alfred – father: John – mother:  Elizabeth – baptism: 1841 Aug 15- age 4 weeks old – St. George’s Parish

So she was born about 1836 and they hadn't quite got around to baptising her before.  I was just thinking today that I should follow this up, but my subscriptions are only for the UK and Ireland so I couldn't have traced them to the US anyway!

It can't be a coincidence that Charles and Alfred were both drapers.  Perhaps Alfred was working with Charles while he was learning the trade - you did find he was a visitor in London in 1861.   

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