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Messages - Tristesse

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England / Mary Ann Ward (nee Massey) b. .1876 in Birmingham
« on: Monday 02 February 09 10:14 GMT (UK)  »
I'm trying to find out what happened to Mary Ann Ward (nee Massey) b. .1876 in Birmingham.  (Parents Thomas Massey and Harriet Sadler).

She married George Thomas Ward b. c. 1874 in Walsall, Staffordshire, in 1896 in King's Norton, Staffs.

They had 4 children:
Sidney b 1898 in Warrington, Lancashire
Walter b. 1900 in Smethwick, Staffordshire
Elsie b. 1903 in Smethwick, Staffordshire
Hilda b. 1906 in Smethwick, Staffordshire

I found George in the 1911 census, living with the children and his House Keeper – Phoebe Jane Buckerfield.  He is recorded as being married (not widower) but there is no trace of Mary Ann.

George and Phoebe had 4 children together – at least one, perhaps two were born before they married in 1914. 

Herbert b. 1912 in King's Norton, Staffs.
Ernest b. 1914 King's Norton, Staffs.
Beatrice b. 1916 King's Norton, Staffs.
Gilbert b. 1918 King's Norton, Staffs.

I cannot find a death for Mary, but based on the clue in the 1911 census and the marriage in 1914 to Phoebe, I'm searching for a death between 1911 and 1914.

All I'm getting are more questions!!  Perhaps she was in a nursing home?  Was she visiting relatives on the night of the census?  If so I can't find her.  Would she visit family without her children?  Or, did George and Phoebe have her tied up in the cellar!!!????

Can you help?

Worcestershire / Re: John/William Copson b c.1845 in Worcester
« on: Friday 16 January 09 12:54 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much for all that!

Yes, that's the 1851 census I have.

I have now found a death which fits with Harriet : d. 1852 in Worcester.
And a marriage for William Copson and Martha Williams, 1860 in Shiffnal (free BDM, same page) which also fits.

Onwards and upwards.....  ;D

Worcestershire / John/William Copson b c.1845 in Worcester
« on: Friday 16 January 09 10:52 GMT (UK)  »

I'm stuck!  I hope you may be able to help me.

I'm trying to trace the birth and parents of John William Copson b. c1845.
In the census he gives his place of birth as Worcester, Worcestershire.
I have conflicting data re dob.  1891 census - age 45 = dob 1846 /  1901 census - aged 56 = dob 1845, 1911 census - age 67 = dob 1844.

Widower in 1911.

He married Julia Pritchard (b. c1849 d. 1877 ) in 1864.  They had 3 children, Mary, Annie and Walter.
He re-married in 1879 to Rosa Hanna / Rosanna (She too has "issues" with her name!!) Gregory.  She had also been married before to Richard Gregory b. c1850 d.1876 They had a daughter Sarah Ann b.1875.  I think her maiden name was Colley, but I haven't been able to confirm this yet.

He is confusing as he switches from John to William depending on the documents!!
Recorded as William in 1901 census.
Recorded as William for his marriage to Julia.
In 1881 Sarah Ann is recorded as living with John/William and Rose Hanna/Rosanna as a step daughter, aged 6.

Both his wives and all his children were born in Wellington, Salop, Shropshire.  He is found there in the census returns with  his family.  I'm not sure when he came to Wellington from Worcester.

I have found a 1851 census return with a William aged 6, in Worcester, district of Claines, which would fit, but I cannot find a birth record to correspond.  Nor can I find him between 1851 and 1891.

Perhaps a fresh pair of eyes will be able to find him!

Argyllshire / John Livington c 1810 - Glenorchy
« on: Monday 24 November 08 13:55 GMT (UK)  »
Hello,  I've hit a dead end with my John Livingston and hope that you can help, perhaps.

My quest involves John Livinston(e)

John's age differs in different census:
1841 age 38 - dob c1803
1851 age 37 (!) - dob c1814
1861 age 49 - dob c1812

He married Janet Risk - Banns 17/11/1838 Parish of Fintry, Stirling (It mentions that John is of Glenorchy)

Janet is a widow in 1871 so John must have died between 1861 and 1871.  In 1861 they are in Lochgoilhead, Argyll.  In 1871 Janet is in Aberfoyle, Perthsshire with Margaret and John Jnr.

I cannot find a record of John's death anywhere and this is stopping me going further back, as I have no confirmation of his parents names.

I have a hunch that he may have been born in 1810 to Malcolm Livingston and Catharine Black in Glenorchy and Inishail.  (Corresponds to clue in the wedding banns!)

John named one of his daughters Catherine and one of his sons Malcolm (more clues!)

In the 1841 CENSUS I have found Catharine and Malcolm with (some of) their children::
Place: Glenorchy-Innishail
Address: Inveroer
LIVINGSTON   Malcolm   M   60   Ag Lab    Argyllshire       
LIVINGSTON   Catharine   F   55       Argyllshire       
LIVINGSTON   Allan   M   15       Argyllshire       
LIVINGSTON   Isabell   F   20       Argyllshire

How can I confirm that these are indeed John's parents?   Any tips / ideas?

Scotland / Re: Missing: Malcolm Livingstone b.1843
« on: Friday 10 October 08 11:09 BST (UK)  »
Mmm, yes.
John also seems to have his doubts:

1841 age 38 - dob 1803
1851 age 37 (!) - dob 1814
1861 age 49 - dob 1812

Thank you soooo much for your help. 

Scotland / Re: Missing: Malcolm Livingstone b.1843
« on: Friday 10 October 08 10:59 BST (UK)  »
I'm in awe, Monica!

I've noticed that Janet appears not to know her dob, as it varies in each census:

1841 - age  28 -> dob abt 1813
1851 -  age 35 -> dob abt 1816
1861 - age 49 -> dob abt 1812
1871 - age 60 -> dob abt 1811
1881 - age 72 -> dob 1809

Scotland / Re: Missing: Malcolm Livingstone b.1843
« on: Friday 10 October 08 10:35 BST (UK)  »
WOW!!  Thank you!!   

How on earth did you find him?   I have searched and searched and came up with nothing!!

re Janet and John, I had found that marriage record, I think it is the date of the actual marriage, following the banns in november.

A million thanks again, now I can carry on my research and stop banging my head off the wall.  :D

Scotland / Missing: Malcolm Livingstone b.1843
« on: Friday 10 October 08 08:34 BST (UK)  »
Hello from a shiny new newbie!

As suggested by dave on the Census lookups board I am also posting my problem here. (Original post here ->

My problem is a mystery Malcolm:
I'm looking for a trace of Malcolm Livingstone's birth record. He was born in Stirlingshire, St Ninians in 1843.
I have a trace of him in the 1871 census where he was in Perthshire with his wife (Margaret McNicol sometimes spellt MacNicol depending on the docs) and his eldest son Peter, aged 1.
He appears again in the 1901 census, a widower with his children.

He married Margaret in 1869 in Comrie, Perthshire.

I cannot trace his birth at all, therefore have no way of further researching his parents. I know their names from the death cert (died 13/4/1916 in Carrington, Midlothian)

Parents' names: John Livingstone (b. Glenorchy?) and Janet Risk (b. Stirling?) It is unclear exactly when their marriage took place. (Banns 17/11/1838 Parish of Fintry, Stirling) It mentions that John was "of Glenorchy".

Peter - b. 1870 in Comrie, Perthshire
John b. 1872 in Comrie, Perthshire
Janet b. 1875 in Dumbarton, Dumbartonshire
Dugald b. 1880 in Carrington, Edinburgh
Margaret b. 1883 in Carrington, Edinburgh

I'm at a dead end :(

I wonder if anyone can help me find my Malcolm.

Thanks for looking, Dave.

I have already spent a silly amount of money on SP trying to find his birth.  He seems to have disappeared totally.  Perhaps his birth wasn't registered at all?

Or, perhaps Malcolm was his second given name but he was known as that to avoid confusion with his father.  I have battled my way through a similar "case" on another (English) branch of the family.

I will do as you suggest and post on the Scotland General board - as you say they did travel about the counrty a bit.

Thanks for trying to help.


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