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Messages - OhBaldOne

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1
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: A Sticky Wicket in Sheffield by way of London
« on: Wednesday 09 December 09 20:19 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, Valda. It appears that all of your posting is correct - John Wadsworth in the 1841 census was 22 - puts his birth date at 1819 - which is spot on. John and William could very well be brothers - that would make my John's father as John Wadsworth from London, married to Elizabeth Ings. (not conclusive, of course, pending confirmation data).

To answer the following…
"In the 1851 census both men and their families had left Yorkshire. John and Harriet appear to have named their first son Alfred. Though John was away from the family on the 1851 census Harriet and her children seem to be living in Staveley in Derbyshire (is this your family?) which is south of Sheffield, as Wath upon Dearne is to the north of Sheffield. Interestingly though the eldest two children were born in Hoyland Yorkshire which was actually part of the parish of Wath upon Dearne."

Yes, the Harriet and children living in Staveley are my GreatGreatGrandmother Harriet and the first of her brood, some born in Hoyland - where I think she came from. Would make sense having her kids there.

If (my) John and William were brothers and had a younger brother Alfred - that would make sense, since (my) John named their first son Alfred  - actually George Alfred, but who was always called Alfred.

William names one of his sons Alfred as well. Family name on Father's side, perhaps. Maybe it is actually "George Alfred" as it is in my John's family - perhaps making their father a George Wadsworth? Pure speculation…

I agree on the coincidental nature of the two being Joiners and coming from (Not born in Yorkshire), presumably St. Georges in the East, and both living in Sheffield. William being the elder brother having his younger Joiner brother John  "join" them up in Sheffield for work…sounds very plausible to me.

Of William's children's names, James, Emma and Alfred, the first and last repeat in our family. No Emma's to be seen at all.




2
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: A Sticky Wicket in Sheffield by way of London
« on: Wednesday 09 December 09 15:56 GMT (UK)  »
Valda: thanks for the update - I rechecked my chart and none of the names on the update fit in, either from a "family name" basis (ie: passing down a particular name through the generations) nor from a date, place standpoint. So at least we can eliminate some of the "noise" that we come across. By the 1850's my John and Harriet had emigrated to America with all their kids. They went to upstate New York where there were family and others of the name, as mentioned below. So I'm back to floundering again until I can find out the parents of John. Critical name would be Ing or Ings in the wife's name. But as you may have mentioned, there are no Ing(s) in the names of the children, which one would expect - since this hand-me-down of names seems to be a way of reinforcing ancestry and establishing family links.


3
Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests / Re: Ex-landed gentry seeks Sheffield Marriage Record
« on: Wednesday 09 December 09 15:39 GMT (UK)  »
Tuppie…many thanks for your offer. I was able in 1983 to get the archivist at S&DFHS give me the births of John Wadsworth and Harriot/Harriett Morton's children, so at least I have that. The problem I'm having now is that of John's parentage - I had what I thought was the right link and that has been disproved by another Rooter who had the right information. Which is why I'm trying to find out his parents names - I have a death record here that states his father's name was also John. But that's the extent of the data. I had another tip that he was born in St. Georges in the East, Middlesex, London. And, there was a John Wadsworth that could be his father who was married to an Elizabeth Ing(s). They had 3 to 4 offspring as far as I know at this point. So that could be my next search area once I find John's father and hopefully his mother.

I speculate that John moved back to YKS to be with Harriet's family - I have some data that gives me names and dates of her links. I also think that John may have moved to YKS for a couple of reasons: 1 - there were lots of Wadsworth's where he moved to (Hoyland, Wath, etc etc) and that there was joiner and carpentry work there. Most of their children (including my GGrandfather) were all born in YKS. I suspect that John had family there as well, but that remains to be proven, since he may have been born in St.G in E. All will be revealed I hope!

4
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: A Sticky Wicket in Sheffield by way of London
« on: Saturday 05 December 09 23:30 GMT (UK)  »
You people are amazing! My thanks are not sufficient…
John and Harriot emigrated to US in the mid(ish)1850's thereabouts with his family - wife and family went first, John came shortly thereafter according to my family records - John was a carpenter and help build or built a church in Houlton, Maine before moving to Upstate New York where there have been Wadsworth's since the 1600's, thanks to a land grant from King George…well, one of them kings it were, anyroad…

Question: would the Sheffield marriage certificate (maybe) have his mother's name on it? I seem to get the impression that it mayn't. Which, unless it just had her first name and it didn't happen to be Elizabeth, I may be yodeling up moon valley in this search.

If it IS Elizabeth, then the odds are on (no Ladbrooks bets, please…) that she's Elizabeth Ings and IF I can get confirmation of that, and then a certificate or some such data of her marriage to John (my John's father), and it had HIS father's name and occupation, maybe even his wife's name, I could have further clues to go on. Otherwise I'm at Witzend, so to speak.

Who knew this stuff could get so convoluted! Blimey…

John and Harriot moved up to Yorkshire after they got married - according to census records: courtesy of another poster.

1841 census Sheffield
John WADSWORTH, 22, Joiner, Not born in county
Harriot WADSWORTH, 22, Born in county
HO107/1335/B9/Sheffield/Yorkshire/ED19/9/11

1851 census indicates that he must have moved out for a while looking for work…providing it's the same John, which by age and birth date 1819 is spot on.
1851 census Worksop
John WADSWORTH, lodger mar 32, Carpenter, born Middlesex, St George in the East
HO107/2122/9/11

I have Sheffield records from my search in 1983 that that most of their children were born in Hoyland. From the 1851 census it appears that Harriot was left alone with kids while John went to Worksop to find work - he must have had itinerant carpentry jobs…

The 1851 census states that John was London born - St. G in the E.

Always a puzzlement why they left and came to the US…


Dalum: your info from 1841 is right, as far as I can tell. I don't know where they lived or on what street, but the marriage reference is correct. Times being what they were, looks like they moved wherever there was work.
Sorry about the convoluted nature of this post…just trying to get some light shown on the subject…

5
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: A Sticky Wicket in Sheffield by way of London
« on: Saturday 05 December 09 18:51 GMT (UK)  »
Alpinecottage: no hard feelings at all…just being a twit :) I'm going to lock this post down as well, since I went to West Riding Lookup Requests and posted one…hopefully that will start the ball rolling - once again…

I tried to get info from the gro.gov site and it was so unintuitive and difficult to work with, I metaphysically threw it into the dustbin…I'd pay someone to do it for me…asking for paid help seems another taboo, but maybe you can advise?

Cheers and thanks again.

6
Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests / Ex-landed gentry seeks Sheffield Marriage Record
« on: Saturday 05 December 09 18:44 GMT (UK)  »
Greetings! The records in question are for John Wadsworth marriage to Harriet/Harriot Morton, 1840, Sheffield.

According to Alpinecottage: …"the Sheffield marriage is John Wadsworth reg Sep Q 1840, Sheffield 22 263.  The marriage cert will give bride and groom's fathers' names and occupations, and the witness names.  Mothers' names will not be specified but knowing the fathers' occupations may help.  It will also give John's age, but that may just be "full age" ie over 21…"

I presume that reg Sep Q 1840, Sheffield 22 263 means something to someone out there…'tis Greek to me…sorry.

My quandary is to verify John Wadsworth's father as John, and see if his mother is Elizabeth Ings. If so, then my quest goes back to St. Georges in the East…

Feeling the lash from duplicate posts…

Thoroughly chastised here in the States…

7
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: A Sticky Wicket in Sheffield by way of London
« on: Saturday 05 December 09 18:33 GMT (UK)  »
Dawnsh: Am thoroughly chastised about the double post…won't transgress again! :)

CaroleW: ditto on the above…I found out his fathers name from the death certificate here in the States - he died from apoplexy and it stated on the cert that his father's name was John. He ended up in New York state, dying 11 January, 1892 in Brockport, NY.

AlpineCottage: Will shut down the Middlesex/London post…I can feel the lash across my back already! Ta' for the tip on the Sheffield registry information - is there a way for us across the ocean to get such info?

Scarred and battered but resiliant - still seeking information. Be Seeing You…

8
London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: A sticky wicket in St. Georges in the East…
« on: Saturday 05 December 09 18:26 GMT (UK)  »
CaroleW: Thanks for the tip - am still new to this site and don't have protocols down 100%…I altered the message a bit to fit each post - guess not enough :) Hope I don't confuse too many folks out there. My apologies in advance!

Groom: Thanks as well…I may be thinking of more contemporary ones which show both - guess things varied enough back then to make it difficult for us researchers! Will see what I can dig up in the Parish records…

The Wicket Still Sticks…

9
Yorkshire (West Riding) / A Sticky Wicket in Sheffield by way of London
« on: Saturday 05 December 09 17:08 GMT (UK)  »
A sticky wicket in St. Georges in the East…

My GG Granther, John Wadsworth married Harriet/Harriot Morton in 1840 in Sheffield. He, John, was born in Middlesex, St. Georges in the East, London, in 1819. His father was named John Wadsworth. She was from Sheffield.

The Sticky Wicket:
There is a John Wadsworth (married to an Elizabeth Ings), who was a labourer, lived in Jane Street, Middlesex, St. Georges in the East, London. He married Elizabeth Ings in 1809 - according to some jpg files, kindly sent to me by another member, from the banns records from London. John and Elizabeth Ing had (so far) 3 children. William John, Mary, and Catherine. Born 1811, 1812, 1815 respectively. My John born 1819 could be a logical extension of the family. Logic prevailing, of course…

I am seeking marriage records of my John and Harriet/Harriot that would show his parentage - possibly his father - and more importantly, his mother. If her maiden name turns out to be Ings - I'm golden. I hope I could find this in the Sheffield records - which I have no access to at this time - unless publically available?

Then it's off to the races to fine John and Elizabeth's marriage certificate that would show both THEIR parents - hopefully. The jpgs listing the banns have no information other than John and Elizabeth's names. There must be other documentation that is more constructive and illuminating… I would also presume that they would be in the Middlesex, St. Georges in the East parrish records?

Any direction or help would be most appreciated. Virtual Pints offered as a reward!

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