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Topics - Pheno

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1
The Common Room / Ancestry Messaging Service
« on: Sunday 23 August 20 12:26 BST (UK)  »
Further to comments made previously about this I now seem to have yet another anomaly.

I am on the Ancestry.co.uk site and notice I have a new message according to the envelope icon.  However when I click on it to open and read I am always taken to the login page for Ancestry.com and until I log in there I can't read the message.  Previously I could read messages without having to change sites.

Anybody else experiencing this and maybe know how to overcome it if possible?

Pheno

2
Cork / First foray into Irish Records
« on: Thursday 06 August 20 12:43 BST (UK)  »
I wonder if someone is able to help me find the birth/baptism of an Honoria (Hanorah) CRONIN/CRONAN in Cork around 1841 please.

I know she married a Michael Kelleher in Schull, Cork on 28 February 1866. I have found Honoria in the Ireland 1901 census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Dunmanus/Glan/1158114/). She is living with husband Michael Kelleher and their children in Glan, Dunmanus, Cork. Her age is given as 60 and her place of birth as County Cork. So I'm looking for a birth/baptism in approx 1841 in County Cork.

In the marriage record, Honoria's father's name is given as James Cronin. One of the witnesses to the marriage is Ellen Goggin/Gaggin, who also acts as sponsor to some of the children born to Honoria and Michael - along with a James Goggin/Gaggin.

I have found the marriage of an Ellen Cronin to a James Goggin in 1852 in Schull. Unfortunately there are no father names given, although a James Cronin does witness the marriage. I therefore believe that Ellen and Honoria are sisters, with Ellen being the elder (although it's possible that this is not the case).

So I am looking for the births/baptisms of Honoria and Ellen to a James Cronin in County Cork in the 1830s or 1840s. I'm not familiar with Irish records at all, so any help would be appreciated. I did find baptisms of Honoria Cronin at around the right time and in the right place, but none of the fathers were James.

Pheno

3
Kent / Finally tracked down 3 x great grandparents William & Rachel Vinten
« on: Wednesday 15 July 20 13:58 BST (UK)  »
Just to encourage people to carry on researching I thought you might be interested in how, by using DNA, myself and my daughter were able to track down my 3xgreat grandparents, who have eluded us for a considerable number of years. The story starts with my 2x great grandfather  George Vinten bp.1807, Orpington, Kent to William & Rachel Vinten.

Most people claim George's father is William Birch/Burch Vinten bp.15/12/1776 in Tonbridge to parents William and Sarah. He was, presumably named in honour of his paternal grandparents Ė another William and his wife Elizabeth (nee BIRCH). I also assumed this was the case for a number of years, although I was always slightly sceptical for the following reasons:

-William never uses the middle name Birch/Burch in subsequent records (eg. his marriage, the census, marriage certificates of his children, his death certificate);

-Whilst not a million miles away, Tonbridge (where he was baptised) cannot be considered Ďvery closeí to Chislehurst (place of marriage) or Orpington (where children are baptised).

-Neither of us ever matched DNA with anyone who claimed descent through William Birch/Burch VINTENís siblings;

-The Will of William Birch/Burch VINTENís father (also called William) was written in 1806. In this document, William senior mentions his wife, Sarah, and his surviving daughters. He then quite markedly refers to Ďmy two sons Samuel and Thomasí. There is no mention of his eldest son William Birch/Burch at all, which leads me to believe that he had died by the time the Will was written in 1806.

Rachelís maiden name has always eluded us, recently, however, I found a marriage between one William WILLEN and a Rachel VOLLINGS in 1794 in Chislehurst (Kent). I canít view the actual entry in the parish register, so Iím relying on a transcription. Itís not inconceivable that VINTEN could have been mistranscribed Ė or even misheard in the first place.

Rachel was baptised on 21/5/1775 in Orpington to parents Edward VOLLINS and Elizabeth (nee BLAND or BLUND).  We added Rachelís surname to the ancestry tree that is linked to our DNA test results. Much to our delight, I matched with several descendants of Rachelís siblings which lends support to the fact that she is indeed our direct ancestor.

If this was Ďourí Rachel, then; it must mean that the William she married is also Ďourí William. As I said most people I know of claim descent from William Birch (or Burch) VINTEN, bp.15/12/1776 in Tonbridge to parents William and Sarah.

I have identified an alternative candidate for William, husband of Rachel, which is backed up both by paper records and DNA evidence. There is a William VINSON baptised 1/9/1776 in Shoreham, Kent to Anne VINSON (no father given). Shoreham is only 9 miles from Chislehurst (location of the marriage to Rachel) and only 6 miles from Orpington (where the coupleís children are baptised and where Rachel was herself baptised).

DNA evidence means that Iím as certain as I can be that that Anne, mother of William, is the same Anne VINETON who was baptised in 1758 in Brenchley, Kent to Abraham VINETON and Mary RILEY. For instance, I match DNA with other descendants of Abraham and Mary and paper records exist to support the lines of descent of the following matches:

∑ SF (6th cousin once removed) who descends from Abraham and Maryís daughter Susan/Susannah VINSON, baptised 1742 in Bidborough, Kent; and

∑ KR (6th cousin twice removed) who descends from Abraham and Maryís daughter Elizabeth VINTON, baptised 1747 in Tonbridge, Kent.

After a long search and several unsuccessful death certificate purchases we have also found the record of William Vinten's death in the Southwark workhouse in 1847.

It's a sad story really in that this William was baptised as William VINSON in 1776, married as William WILLEN in 1794 and buried as William VINDOM in 1847.  No-one else (from what I can ascertain) has connected these 3 events as being for the same person - really only being confirmed by the dna evidence now becoming available.

So an example of how just continuing to return to a tricky problem over the years may yet allow a breakthrough, perhaps as more info is becoming available online, and the use of dna has solved the problem of my 3xgreat grandparents.  Now to tackle the problem of the illegitimate William Vinson's unknown father.

Pheno

Some of my previous Vinten posts

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758828.msg6093878#msg6093878

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=691246.msg5351167#msg5351167

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832397.msg6969364#msg6969364


4
Kent / Could this be my missing Rachel?
« on: Monday 08 June 20 17:35 BST (UK)  »
For years I have been searching for the specific individual who is my 3xgreat grandmother.

All I knew about her initially is that she is mentioned as the mother on a baptism of William Vintin on 14 Oct 1804 in Orpington, Kent although indications are that he was actually born in 1798. His father is given as William Vintin, although this is variously spelled as Vinten/Vinton (Winton/Winten) in records.

There seems to be the birth of other siblings to William & Rachel Vinten; James bp 14 Oct 1804 Orpington (with the above William), George bp 15 March 1807 Orpington from whom I trace my descent, Mary Ann 1808 Orpington and Harriott bp 13 May 1810 Orpington.

Nothing else was known about Rachel other than her appearance as Rachael Winton in the 1841 census HO107/483/10/14 as a 58 year old female servant in Keston Kent presumably with her husband William and daughter Harriott.

There is also an 1847 death of Rachael Vinton in the Union Workhouse at Southwark where she had been admitted prior to death and a subsequent burial in Southwark.

A marriage for Rachael & William has always escaped me but just browsing on familysearch the other day and excluding any surnames I came across the marriage of a William Willen to Rachel Vollings on 14 Nov 1794 in Chislehurst, Kent and wondered if it was worth following up although both surnames seemed a bit odd to me.

There is a baptism of a Rachel Vollins on 17 May 1775 in Orpington to an Edward and Elizabeth Vollins - right time & right place.

There are 13 ancestry trees with this Rachel Vollins in and nobody knows anything about her other than this baptism.  I cannot find any deaths in the locale for a Rachel Willen neither can I find any children baptised to a William & Rachel Willen locally either. 

Could William Willen be William Vinten and could this be my Rachael?  Is there any more evidence I can gather before I accept her as my 3rd great grandmother?  Maybe she emigrated but I ca't find any evidence of that either.

Help please,  Pheno


5
I have the baptism of a William Charles Ford on 24 March 1868 to Charles & Silviniah Ford in Hove, Sussex. I also have the baptism of the same child on 10 May 1868 to the same parents again in Hove.  These records are both on Ancestry and yes may be annotated incorrectly and the earlier one may record the birth rather than the baptism.

However, again from Ancestry I also have the baptism of a Charles William Ford on 8 Feb 1875 (noted as having been born on 9 June 1867) at St. Peter's Church, Brighton again to Charles & Silvinia Ford.

I can't find them both together on any census.

Conceivably it is just possible that you could have a child born on 9 June 1867 and another one on 24 March 1868, but why wouldn't you have the older child baptised until he was almost 8 if you have the second child baptised at a couple of months old.

What do you think - the same child baptised twice, or even three times if the March date is not his birth, or two different children?

Thanks, Pheno

 

6
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / My Heritage - Unlocking Ethnicity Estimates
« on: Friday 07 February 20 15:24 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I manage 4 dna kits on MyHeritage and to unlock the ethnicity estimates and other advanced dna features? is £29 a throw so £126 for all, although it does say it is a one time purchase.

I do not currently subscribe and neither do I need to really as everything I want on other sites to which I do subscribe but they are offering me a discounted annual premium sub for £59, which will give me enhanced smartmtches. 

Preumably for all the kits I manage? 

Will this include unlocking the ethnicity estimates too?

Will I lose the ethnicity estimates if I cancel my sub after 1 year.

No-brainer if, for a £59 sub I get what I would have to pay £126 for through the other route.

Does anybody know the answers please?

Thanks, Pheno

7
Surrey / Laleham (now in Surrey) - Parish Register of Baptisms c1795
« on: Tuesday 28 January 20 17:30 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I will post this same message on the Middlesex board as I am really not sure which county to post in.  I know Laleham is now in Surrey but for the time period I am searching it was in Middlesex.

I am after the baptism of an Elizabeth/Mary/Elizabeth Mary/Mary Elizabeth Turner between 1790 and possibly 1805.

I believe, as Mary Turner, she married a William Bishop at Lamberhurst, Kent on 2 May 1820 and then settled and had children in Brighton, Sussex.  She is in all the 1841-1891 censuses for Brighton mostly as Elizabeth Bishop but recorded as Mary Bishop in 1861.  Her birth county seems to vary between Sussex, Kent and Middlesex but the place seems to be fairly stable as Laleham/Laglem.

I can't find the Laleham baptism registers online at all (and have looked under Staines, Surrey) so wondered if anybody had sight of them to look this up or could point me in the right direction.

Thanks, Pheno

8
London and Middlesex / Laleham (now in Surrey) - Parish Register of Baptisms c1795
« on: Tuesday 28 January 20 17:29 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I will post this same message on the Surrey board as I am really not sure which county to post in.  I know Laleham is now in Surrey but for the time period I am searching it was in Middlesex.

I am after the baptism of an Elizabeth/Mary/Elizabeth Mary/Mary Elizabeth Turner between 1790 and possibly 1805.

I believe, as Mary Turner, she married a William Bishop at Lamberhurst, Kent on 2 May 1820 and then settled and had children in Brighton, Sussex.  She is in all the 1841-1891 censuses for Brighton mostly as Elizabeth Bishop but recorded as Mary Bishop in 1861.  Her birth county seems to vary between Sussex, Kent and Middlesex but the place seems to be fairly stable as Laleham/Laglem.

I can't find the Laleham baptism registers online at all (and have looked under Staines, Surrey) so wondered if anybody had sight of them to look this up or could point me in the right direction.

Thanks, Pheno

9
Sussex / Sarah Austen - 5th great grandmother
« on: Monday 13 January 20 11:58 GMT (UK)  »
The above Sarah Austen comes into my tree as the mother of an illegitimate child Isaac Tuppenny Austen baptised 9 Aug 1789 at Ticehurst, Sussex.  I have seen the bastardy order sworn by Sarah at Salehurst on 14 Feb 1789 naming Isaac Tuppenny as the father.  I have my descent from Isaac Tuppenny Austen (My 4xGGF) and I also have an extensive Tuppenny family tree allowing me to trace antecedents of Isaac Tuppenny, the reputed father so I don't need any help in either of those directions.

What I don't have though is any info on Sarah Austen.  She appears in my tree in 1789 and just as quickly disappears again and I know nothing further about her other than she possibly repeated this illegitimate child scenario again in 1796 when giving birth to son William, baptised at Ticehurst on 8 May 1796, and again I have no further info on him.

Who were her parents?  Did she marry?  When did she die?  I have assumed a birthdate around 1770 for her but no idea of her age at either of these events so might be way out.

If anybody can help shed some light on her, or offer any suggestions, I should be very grateful.

Obviously subject to the usual name varions - Austin/Auston.

Thanks, Pheno

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