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Topics - pimpernel

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1
Worcestershire / Broadway Parish records
« on: Monday 18 February 19 15:12 GMT (UK)  »
I wonder are some of the Broadway Parish Records missing or not shown online? I'm struggling to find any of my family through Ancestry prior to the 1790's, though family search.org shows some record transcriptions for other families.

2
Denbighshire / 1881 Census confusion in Cefn Mawr: Evans, Rogers & Edwards
« on: Sunday 10 February 19 18:24 GMT (UK)  »
Hi everyone, I'm struggling a little with an 1881 census entry for 5 Russell St, Cefn Mawr, Ruabon district. Here we have the household of Daniel Evans:

Daniel Evans (25) Head
Hannah Evans (30) wife
Emily A. Evans    (6) daughter
William Evans    (4) son
Emily Rogers    (51) widow, mother-in-law
Edward Rogers    (14) brother-in-law
Sarah Edwards    (76) widow, grandmother
William H. Lloyd (17) nephew

My connection is the Grandmother Sarah Edwards, also Daniel's nephew William H. Lloyd, who also appears in the 1871 census living in his grandparent's house (Edward & Sarah Edwards, in Sion Cottage, Cysyllte).

I'm finding it hard to confirm the connections though.
The most likely 1871 census for Daniel Evans shows him as the youngest child of Godfrey and Anne Evans, who, according to the census, were born circa 1806 and 1812 respectfully. This makes both of them too old to be the offspring of Sarah Edwards, born circa 1805/06, which seems to rule out Daniels' family as connected to Sarah, so I assume "grandmother" refers to wife Hannah's family.

Hannah's maiden name must be Rogers, judging by the brother-in-law and mother-in-law listed. If Hannah was born circa 1851, I've not found any Emily=Evans marriage that might identify her father, or confirm mother Emily's maiden name, the only 1871 census entry that I found that matches shows a Hannah working as a servant in Pendleton, no indication of parents. Also no sign of an 'Emily Rogers' in the earlier censuses. I did find a possible 1871 entry for Hannah's brother Edward, living with parents Robert & Emma Rogers in Brymbo, but that's a fair distance from the Ruabon area, I'm  not convinced.

All this leaves me wondering how my confirmed ancestor, the 'grandmother' Sarah Edwards, is connected to this family. The only grandparent route left would be Emily Rogers' mother, i.e. Emily was originally Emily Edwards. As Emily was born circa 1830 she would be a suitable age to be Sarah's daughter. Research so far has identified daughters of Sarah and husband Edward Edwards as Harriet (B.1832, I believe married Edward Roberts), Sarah (1838, married Edward Williams) and Ann (1842), but I've not found any records indicating a daughter Emily though. If I could pin down Emily's maiden name it would help to confirm!
 
If Sarah's youngest daughter Ann survived to adulthood, perhaps she was the mother of William H Lloyd, but I've not had any luck tracing his birth, or an Ann Edwards marriage to a Lloyd.

William H Lloyd, 'nephew' of Daniel Evans, was born circa 1863/64 and clearly a grandson of Sarah Edwards in the 1871 and 1881 censuses, but no sign of his parents at all. As the family worked on canal boats perhaps this parents were frequently away, but I've not found any specific likely parents. He's probably the William Lloyd shown in Cefn in 1891 at 26 Mount Pleasant, aged 27 and with wife Elizabeth. He's definitely family, but where does he connect!

If anyone can help to identify Sarah Edwards' connection to the family of Daniel Evans, and/or the identity of William H Lloyds' parentage, I'd be very grateful!

3
Worcestershire / Pressdee family of Alfrick
« on: Wednesday 23 January 19 21:50 GMT (UK)  »
I wonder if anyone can help clarify some details of the Pressdee family based in Alfrick and Suckley in the 1700's.

I believe Ann Pressdee married William Wood in April 1811, the National Archives has a marriage settlement, though it's not been transcribed so I've only seen the index reference for it here:

Nat. Archives C 107/180 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7029081 "WOOD v SHALLARD: Copy of marriage settlement of William Wood and Ann Pressdee, 1811 and papers relating to mills at Suckley: Worcs"

I'm not sure why this is listed as Wood v Shallard, any ideas?

I've fair confidence this is the correct marriage, Ann's brother John Pressdee (1778-1862) and his daughter Eliza are witnesses to the 1845 marriage of Ann & William's daughter Rebecca Wood. However I've not found any 1811 marriage record for William Wood and Ann Pressdee yet. 

Nevertheless, assuming this is the correct Ann, an entry on the LDS site shows a baptism of 1st May 1780 in Alfrick, father John, mother Mary. This is the only record I could find for an Ann Pressdee. There is an entry in the 1841 census for William and Ann Wood living in Leigh (with Bransford), which ties in with records for their daughter, though Anne's age is rounded up to 55, which would suggest a later birth than 1780.

I was convinced that Ann's parents were John Pressdee born 1731, and Mary Butler (1749-1825) of Alfrick, who had a substantial family of boys, but it seems only one daughter - at least according to the records I've found! According to the baptism record  John's parents were James & Mary, who I took to be James Pressdee (1701 Doddenham -1777 Suckley) and Mary Medens (1701-1760, Suckley).

But I'm not so sure now. I've found a lot of un-sourced trees mentioning these individuals, but few actual records that confirm anything. I made some assumptions based on the limited number of records I could find online, but other trees seem to show there were more than one James=Mary families in the region. Suddenly I'm going back over my evidence for Ann Pressdee and wondering if it's flimsy!

So, questions - can anyone help to 1) confirm Ann's marriage to William Wood in 1811? 2) offer any pointers to confirm/deny her parentage to John & Mary Butler? 3) Clarify the James & Mary parents of John?

Many thanks!


4
Denbighshire / John & Jane Jones family of (Fron) Cysylte
« on: Sunday 27 May 18 13:18 BST (UK)  »
Hi, I'm digging for details to confirm a Jones family of Cysyllte (i.e. Froncysyllte ).

The 1851 Census lists John Jones (Boatman, aged 54), with wife Jane (49), and children Sarah (20), Richard (18), Ellen (14), Ann (14), Mary Ann (10), Margaret (8 ) and Jane (3) - all are listed as born in 'Vron, Llangollen' (i.e. Froncysyllte).

The 1841 Census shows John and Jane, both aged abt 35, with 6 children John (15), Elizabeth (15), Richard (9), Mary (7), Ellen (4) and Ann (2). Also in property appears to be a Rafe(?) Williams (30) and Sarah Jane Williams (12), all born in county.

In the parish register for Glan-Yr-Afon Independent chapel (viewable on Ancestry) of Froncysyllte / Llangollen, there's a baptism for a daughter Elizabeth - "Elizabeth, daughter of John Jones Rocker, in the township of Cysyllte, by Jane his wife, former Williams, was born Feb 1st baptized June 13th 1822 by Wm Williams", this is too old for the Elizabeth in the 1841 census above (though I'm aware the 1841 numbers were rounded up or down), so I'm wondering if she was a child who died in infancy before 1826... or is she a different family (the censuses state John was a boatman, not a rocker- i.e. rockman). 

However the 1841 census with the two Williams lodgers hint that John's wife Jane may have been a Williams before marriage? If so, then the Glan-Yr-Afon record seems feasible for their eldest daughter.

There is another Glan-Yr-Afon baptism record for a Mary Jones "Mary, Daughter of John Jones, Cysyllte (Carrier) by Jane his wife (formerly Williams), was born Sept 14th 1828 and baptized Feb 9th 1829 By Thomas Jones." - this time the father's occupation does match, though again it's too old for the Mary mentioned in the 1841 census, which suggest an 1834 birth for their daughter Mary, so another infant death with later born sibling with the same name perhaps?

The Glan-Yr-Afron records do however have exactly matching entries for son Richard ( "Richard son of John Jones ???try ???ian boatman by Jane his wife (formerly Williams) was born January 2nd 1833 and baptised October 4th 1833. by Thos. Jones").

This leaves me with some conundrums -
1) Were the baptisms of two children with matching name, but incompatible birth dates, all the same family? Were the census birth dates just wrong?
2) If these are the correct family, why does the Glan-Yr-Afon set not have baptisms for their other children John, Elizabeth, Sarah and so on? - I've not traced any of their births.
3) Hints point to Jane's family name may be Williams, (Richard's baptism seems to nail it), but I've not found any records clearly confirming their marriage, or a birth for Jane (or for husband John for that matter!)
4) I've not traced the "Rafe" & Sarah Jane staying with them in 1841, were they family, or just lodgers? Was the Sarah Jane the same as the Sarah listed in 1851?

Any thoughts, help with these greatly received!



5
Flintshire Lookup Requests / Robert Williams in Mold 1834
« on: Tuesday 20 February 18 19:08 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I'm looking once more at a brick wall in my Williams line. I have the family of Robert & Hannah Williams in the 1881 and 1891 censuses, living in Minera and Coedpoeth respectively. Robert is stated as born in Mold, age estimate points to 1834. Looking at Family Search & Ancestry, sites, I can't find any Robert Williams births in 1834, the nearest recorded being in 1831 and 1836. I thought perhaps the 1836 record might be him, but am now unconvinced. Another family researcher thinks he might be the Robert Williams born in Halkyn in 1833, but this also seems unlikely, Halkyn is a distinct area from Mold.

Looking at the Batch Number:C056651 records on Family Search, there seems to be a series of Robert Wiliams births in Mold up until 1831, but then none whatsoever! In fact no records at all, for any Williams, from 1832 onwards, are Mold parish records missing for the 1832-36 period?

Does anyone have access to the Mold records? Can you let me know if there are in fact any records for 1834? Many thanks!

6
Hello forum! I've a look-up request to confirm details of Catherine Toms of Blockley. First, for the marriage of William Haynes (or Haines) and Catherine Toms, 24th July 1786 in Blockley. FindMyPast had a reference to it as a marriage to William Harris, I'd like to clarify the details.

Assuming the marriage is correct, I've a tricky problem identifying Catherine Tom's birth too. A transcript list of Blockley parish records posted online shows two Catherine Toms births in the Blockley records:

20th April 1764, to John & Mary Toms
3rd January 1768, to John & Elizabeth Toms.

There is one burial mentioned:
"TOMS, Catherine, Female, no details who died of SMALL POX", Aston Magna 21 Aug 1779. 

So which of the two births does this child death correspond to? Baptism/burial notes of other siblings indicate John & Mary Toms (nee Jobson) lived in Aston Magna, though John & Elizabeth may have lived there too. In fact it could be the same John who remarried an Elizabeth after the death of Mary, though I've not found a record either for her death or a re-marriage.

I don't have access to the actual records, just a list on here: http://www.allthecotswolds1.com/ , so any help greatly appreciated!

If Catherine Toms in fact didn't marry William Haynes, I need to find out who did! Baptisms of his children state Catherine as their mother's name.

Many thanks!



7
The Common Room / Same couple married twice in different parishes?
« on: Friday 05 January 18 20:55 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I'm curious whether this is a real thing or just a technical hiccup with Ancestry.

I've the marriage record of Thomas Griffin and Rebecca Wood on 11th November 1845, in St. Martin's Parish Church, Worcester (Worcester Oct-Dec Vol 18 732 ) . I believe both bride and groom are local, but Thomas is at the time resident (working as a servant) at Clevedon in Somerset.

All very well, however....

Ancestry also lists a marriage 9 days earlier on 02 November 1845, at St.Andrews Church Clevedon, Somerset, for Thomas Griffin and Rebecca Wood (FHL Film Number 1526508
Reference ID item 51-57 ). It's clearly the same couple.

I'm a little confused. Were they married twice in 2 different counties? Or was the Clevedon record perhaps Banns? If so, why the different parish? Can anyone help clarify?

I have a copy of the Worcestershire record, but only the transcript note on Ancestry for the Clevedon one. Does anyone have access to the actual record?

Many thanks!

8
Oxfordshire / 1770/80's sudden deaths (Shayler in Kencot, Oxfordshire)
« on: Sunday 03 December 17 15:48 GMT (UK)  »
Looking through parish records I'm really curious about what seem to be a series of untimely deaths in Kencot. My research indicates William Shayler of Langford (born 1741/2) married Sarah Dyer of Kencot on 15th October 1774. The couple had four children, all of which died in infancy except the last - Ann Shayler (born & died 1775), Sarah Shayler (born 1776, died the following year 1777), Richard Shayler (born & died 1778), and William (born 1781, who thankfully survived until 1865). Infant mortality isn't unusual, but the curious thing is that mother Sarah seems to have died in 1782, the year after William's birth, and her husband in 1783, being buried on 23rd March that year.

Now, I could be making the wrong assumptions, but if this is correct baby William's entire family died in a 7 year period, leaving him a 2-year old orphan. I know he stayed in the area, as his two sons were later born in Langford, but who would have raised the child in the 1780's? I've not traced any other Shayler's in Langford at that time.

I'm wondering if there might simply be gaps in the parish records and that the birth-death connections I'm assuming may be wrong. Does anyone know of any particular cause for so many deaths in the area at that time?

9
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / struggling with 17thC will
« on: Sunday 05 November 17 13:07 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I'm having a lot of problems deciphering a 1619 will, can anyone help? I won't inflict the whole will on the forum, but here are a few lines that leave me particularly baffled.  


I have "and William Tiffon on the other part defendants for and ??? my late ?melling sone?? and ?? commonly rall???? by the name of Stephen & ??? ????? and being m Da??? e??nrtheyard?? London my late will and pleasure is notwithstanding all former willes..." Can anyone help fill the gaps? Thank you !

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