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Buckinghamshire / Two burials of same name exactly 1 year apart
« on: Monday 15 February 21 21:53 GMT (UK)  »
I'm tracing my 5xGG Robert Gray. I know almost nothing about him other than he was married to an Ann Allum whom he married in Great Marlow on 23/02/1778

They had 4 children:

Joseph Gray b1781
Ann Gray b1783
Sarah Gray b 1785
Hannah Gray b1790

I've no idea when Robert was born but have presumed it was around 1757 +/- 5 years in Great Marlow. Unfortunately there are two potential baptisms that match, one in 1757 and the other in 1759 and at the moment I've no way of identifying which is correct.

I'm also trying to find a burial for him and as it must be on or after 1790 I can only find two burials in Great Marlow that are possibles. However they match each other almost too perfectly and it makes me wonder if they are in fact the same burial but one has been miss transcribed.

In the record set England Deaths & Burials 1538-1991 there is a burial for a Robert Gray in Great Marlow on 19 Sep 1791

In the archives of the centre for Buckinghamshire Studies in the Bishops Transcripts (archive reference D/A/T/126/8) there is a burial for a Robert Gray in Great Marlow on 19 Sep 1790

What are the chances of there being two Robert Gray's in Great Marlow that were buried on exactly the same day but 1 year apart? Would you agree that this is more than likely a transcription error or that the date was written down incorrectly in the Bishops Transcript?

London and Middlesex / Court of Common Pleas
« on: Sunday 14 February 21 13:58 GMT (UK)  »
I'm researching my 2x GG George Gray b1840 in York Town, Surrey d1918 in Wandsworth, London.

Looking through the various census and other documents I've found, he's listed as:
Tea Merchant
Hay Straw Salesman

So it would appear he was of relatively humble means. However, one of his sons, Charles Haddon Gray went on to become a solicitor of some note and made a very successful career. It has puzzled me how his son was able to make that leap into a completely different line of work and lifestyle.

I've just found Charles Haddon Gray's School Admission registration in 1873 on Ancestry (LCC/EO/DIV01/STCL1/AD/001 page 19) and the address given is rather odd.

In 1871, according to the census, the family were living at 8 Bates Terrace, Wandsworth Road, Vauxhall

But the address given on the school admission is Court of Common Pleas, Westminster

According to Wikipedia The Court of Common Pleas, or Common Bench, was a common law court in the English legal system that covered "common pleas"; actions between subject and subject, which did not concern the king.

Does anyone know how this could be used as an address and whether this had any bearing on his son later becoming a solicitor?

Family History Beginners Board / Charles Haddon Redvers Gray
« on: Tuesday 02 February 21 22:02 GMT (UK)  »
So this is a bit of an odd one and I suspect it's a case of a family story either being half true or at least covered up to hide the real story.

Charles Haddon Gray was my Great Grand Uncle b1866 d01/02/1941 in Addleston, Surrey, England. For most of his life he lived in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey and practiced as a solicitor. He was married to a Florence Camilla Martin and they had one child, Charles Haddon Redvers Gray (CHRG).

For years I could find almost nothing about CHRG apart from his birth, the 1901 and 1911 census and his death in 1971. I have however just found him on the 1939 register where he was listed as an unemployed Company Secretary in Walton-On-Thames.

The fact that I couldn't find anything about him seemed to fit a family story. That being that one day he decided to give everything up and essentially became a vagrant or at least someone who just roamed around. The story goes that the family were embarrassed by him as he would occasionally just turn up at their door and would stay a day or two before disappearing again. The main thing was that it was his choice to live like this and that he actually liked it. Indeed the impression I got was that he liked to cause embarrassment to his family.

Now this story came to me from my father but he now has dementia and so I can't verify any of this with him anymore.

However, I've just been searching the British Newspaper Archives and I found an article that suggests something else. With a name like this, I would also think it unlikely that there would be two people of the same name. For example:

June 1st 1934 - Thanet Advertiser - A Charles Haddon Redvers Grey is a solicitor in a fraud case where it states he is "of Chancery Lane"

There is also a book called The Mayfair Mafia: The Lives and Crimes of the Messina Brothers which apparently is a true crime book by Dick Kerby which is about "From the mid-1930s into the 1950s, one immigrant Italian family ran Londonís thriving vice trade"

This is available on Google Books and in it it says:

"To start with, in 1934 Eugenio had already been busy. On 28 July at Bow Street Police Court, Charles Haddon Redvers Grey, a 33 year old solicitor of Crown Court, Chancery Lane, pleaded guilty to making a false declaration by saying that Hilda Ward, a 20 year old barmaid, was a fit and proper person to receive a passport. In mitigation, Mr, J. Thompson Halsall told the magistrate, Sir Rollo Frederick Graham-Campbell, that his client had been introduced to the girl by an estate agent with whom he had had many dealings and had no reason to disbelieve, and added that Gray was 'more foolish than knavish'. Fining Gray £50 and ordering him to pay 10 guineas cost, Sir Rollo sternly informed the prisoner that the offence was a serious one, punishable with a maximum sentence of two years imprisonment and a fine of £100"

His age of 33 in 1934 matches the birth of my CHRG so I'm as sure as I can be that these people are all one in the same.

Now it could be that after this he decided to quit and 'go off' or perhaps he lost his job and couldn't find work or perhaps he had some kind of mental breakdown. Alternatively perhaps he continued working somewhere, I can't tell as there just doesn't appear to be any records of him.

Does anyone know where else I could search for him to see what happened to him? Presumably there must be court records of this case, where would I be able to access them? Does anyone know if there are records of solicitors like when they qualified etc? I found a notice in the paper for when his father qualified as a solicitor but nothing for CHRG.

Family History Beginners Board / Finding 1950's UK Burial Records
« on: Sunday 31 January 21 15:40 GMT (UK)  »
Does anyone know where/how to find burial records from the 1950's?

I've just found that my great aunt not only lived just 3 minutes from where I grew up but then moved to where I now live (some 70+ miles away) where she died. I've been trying to find a burial record for her but am just drawing blanks

London and Middlesex / Electoral Registers
« on: Saturday 17 October 20 22:57 BST (UK)  »
I'm researching my 5x GG Joseph Dashwood b1745 Topsham, Devon, d circa 1819 probably in westminster.

For many years he was a watchmaker very close to St. Martins in The Field just off The Strand and in 1788 he was on the jury of a coroners inquest into a suspicious death where he gave his address as being Church Yard, St Martins In The Field.

I've just found an electoral register for the same year where he gives his address as 24 Strutton Ground (roughly 1 mile away). What is interesting is that the next person listed on the register is "The right honourable Lord Sheffield" with the address being given as Downing Street.

I know it doesn't really mean anything but does anyone know how these registers are collated? They don't seem to organised by name or street. The record in question is UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893 on slide 346 available on Ancestry.

Not strictly genealogy related but...

I grew up in Upper Norwood, London (Crystal Palace) and was always fascinated by it's history. I remember a primary school teacher taking us on a tour of the local area pointing out all the bits of local history from pillar boxes dating back to Queen Victoria to mysterious gates that still stood to long lost houses etc. As a result of this I've always collected anything related to the history of the area and the other day I spotted a glass negative photography of a road sadly much changed for the worse in the 1960's/70's. I bought this image and scanned it, converted it and repaired it but I'm trying to get an idea of the date it was taken.

In terms of the glass negative itself, whilst I am very much into photography my knowledge of formats before roll film is scant at best. The negative itself measures roughly 14cm x 9cm which makes me think it's more 'modern' as I believe some earlier ones were larger and with a different aspect ratio.

To me the womens cloths and that of the children make me think it's c1900 but I've found the Palace Store mentioned in the 1880's.

Any ideas?

Family History Beginners Board / Find a particular street on a census?
« on: Thursday 20 February 20 22:14 GMT (UK)  »
Is there a way to view an entire street on the census returns? I'm trying to find all the residents of Palace Road, Upper Norwood, London on the 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 census returns but I can't find a way of searching for a particular street nor can I work out which district etc Palace Road would have been in to locate manually.

Essex / Odd Parish Record
« on: Wednesday 29 January 20 22:52 GMT (UK)  »
If anyone has a subscription to the ERO I wonder if you might have a look at something and see if you can understand it.

D/P 36/1/3 is the parish record for St Peter Ad Vincula in Coggeshall. It covers:

Baptisms : 1680-1811
Marriages : 1679-1753
Burials : 1683-1811

Images 2 - 16 are of marriages from 1679 - 1753
Images 17 - 94 are baptisms from 1680 - 1811
Images 102 - 207 are burials from 1683 - 1811

Image 210 appears to be a collections of births 1703 - 1704, burials 1702 - 1708
Image 211 appears to be births 1701 - 1703
and so on back to 1695 on image 214
Image 215 appears be more births 1702-1703
Image 216 more births form 1683

Just wondering if anyone knows why these births would be recorded here and not with the rest of the births etc

Family History Beginners Board / Parish Records - Burials - A Child Of
« on: Tuesday 28 January 20 12:15 GMT (UK)  »
I've come across something I've not encountered in my tree before. In tracing my maternal line I've got back to the start of the 1700's in Coggeshall, Essex, England and in particular the church St Peter Ad Vincula.

I'm trying to find the baptism of my 6xGG John Foster and I know he got married in 1723 so I would expect a baptism c1700.

Sure enough I find two baptisms in this church for a John Foster:

20/03/1691 Parents John and Susanna
23/06/1700 Parents John and Susanna

I presumed that the first one born in 1691 died and when they had a second son they reused the fathers name so I searched for burials between 1691 and 1700 but couldn't find anything actually mentioning a childs name.

What I did find were several burials listed as "A Child of John Foster" for example:


In none of these is the childs name given just that of the father John Foster.

Looking through the rest of the Parish Registers for this church it's quite frequent that burials of children are recorded in this way.

Does this mean that these children died before they were baptised and so 'were not known to God' and couldn't therefore be named in the church records or was this a common practice for children below a certain age and if so at what age would their names typically start being recorded?

If it was the former then a lot of children were dying before they were baptised, I'm talking hundreds, which whilst possible seems unlikely when looking at several baptism records that also list the date of birth as it seemed common practice to get your child baptised within 2 weeks of birth and in some cases just a couple of days.

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