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Topics - Romany Knaves

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Travelling People / Lee Or Not.
« on: Saturday 07 June 14 16:35 BST (UK)  »
While researching the my Jones Ancestry I came across this, Belcher Lee is recorded on the 1881 census living with his wife who he married in 1874 at Maidstone in Kent, her name was Phebe Ransley, they have four children with them George Lee, Stephen Lee, James Lee and Sarah Lee, but wind back to 1852 and the marriage of Phebe Jones to James Ransley at Maidstone in 1852 who are recorded on the 1871 census with four children George Ransley, Stephen Ransley, James Ransley and Sarah Ransley, Phebe's first husband James died in 1869 aged 37 years, Phebe then married Belcher, a surname but perhaps no bloodline depending what you seek in Ancesery.

Travelling People / Levi and Urania Boswell, Resting Place. [Photograph]
« on: Friday 06 June 14 08:41 BST (UK)  »
While on my, I suppose modern day pilgrimage to Hadlow and Hartlake I drove up the road a short distance to Farnborough to pay my respects to Levi and Urania Boswell and a photo for those that wish to see it, if they not done so already.

Travelling People / Hadlow-Hartlake Photo.
« on: Friday 06 June 14 08:17 BST (UK)  »
For the people who have not seen the memorial at Hadlow in Kent or the scene of the tragedy at Hartlake or are unable to visit the places.

Travelling People / Ripley [Round Here]
« on: Saturday 10 May 14 22:15 BST (UK)  »
Here is some gathered info on the Ripley Family from Kent and Sussex it is not complete as you may well imagine, it's just what I cobbled together while doing research on another family and seems a waste just sitting there.

Ripley/Ripleigh first recorded as a gypsy 1841, the surname go's back to the late 1500's in Sussex may be earlier, surname can also found in the north,

John Ripley and his wife Lucy, John born Basingstoke, Hampshire, Lucy the Isle of Wight are living on the Old Corner in a caravan at Hollington, Sussex, children Caep-Charity-John-Samuel they had been living also at Northiam and Rye in Sussex and Hythe in Kent as a living they were Hawking,
also on Old Corner were William and Esther Ripley William born abt1865 and Esther abt1870 and a child Naomi,
Henry Ripley and wife Prissilar Henry born around 1860 at Hailsham, Sussex and Prissilar late 1860's at Flimwell on the Kent/Sussex boarder they lived in a cottage owned by a retired Brazil they were Marine Scrap Dealers [metal] the cottage was at st Marys in the Castle, Sussex, children Henry-Lousia-William and his brother Moses and his wife Ginlla  both born Sussex early 1860's with two children Moses and Prissilar [the cottage was in a row of six or eight all occupied by Gypsies if I recall].
Moses Ripley and Genty his wife are living in a house on Old Hollington Lane,  both born circa 1870 Moses on Little Common they have five children Celia-Nancy-James-Samson-William they are also scrap dealers,
Moses Ripley abt1870 and his wife Charity abt1865, five children Carline-Henry-Rose-Tom [a fifth child also called Henry may be a transcription error or they liked the name] they are Hawking,
Moses Ripley and wife Matilda Moses, abt865 Matilda abt1875 are living on Magham Down's  both are licensed Hawkers, children Abram-Danel-Luke-Matthew-Moses-Sally-Sealer,
Moses Ripley marriage 1872 to Georgina Golding in Sussex,

Mostof the time they travel with Beeny and Brazil family, an early Ripley in Sussex was Ellioner Ripley aka Allen 1861 [Allen also Gypsy Adopted name, could be of the clan unsure] Meaning of the surname Shouting Man's Meadow, if it may be of any help to anybody.

Travelling People / Valentine from Finland, Penfold from Spain !
« on: Wednesday 09 April 14 21:05 BST (UK)  »
Scotland 29th January 1524 some gypsy woman were sentenced to death by drowning a few weeks later this was communicated to banishment form Scotland one of the woman on the roll as Margaret Valentyne a few months later on the 1st of April 1524 a group of Gypsies living in the province of Friesland Holland were banished one of them was a woman named Margietta Valentyn along with Abraham,Anthony,Emanuel and England the christening of Jane Volantyne on the 1st July 1577 at Horsham Sussex the daughter of George and Margaret being Eygptians and Rouges in 1583 at Gnosall Stafford a baptism of Lancelett Valentine and in 1602 Leticia Voclentine an Eygptian baptised at Blackburn Holland 1635 the 18th of December Gipsies Jan and Joris Valentyn banished and a christening of David Valentine 1638 at Fife Scotland.......Finland 1695 and the start of the finish records the christening of Sophia Valentin the surname has variants and is Finish in origin Scotland had much historical contact with the Scandinavian countries and British gypsies frequented them and no doubt the Kale and Romancical travelled to the British Isles alike......the 3rd of November 1771 the marriage of Elizabeth Valentine to John Penfold at Sunbury in Middlesex Elizabeth is purported to be of Gypsy stock but John is not and a Victorian Author hesitated to guess that it was at this point in history that the Penfolds became Gypsy this is no doubt incorrect I had come across a Dorinda Penfold in the mid 1500's just after the start of the Spanish Inquisition 1478 which lasted to 1834 and it was estimated that between 1480 and 1808 31 thousand plus people had been executed how many had been Romany Quinquis/langulleo or even native Gitano is not known many moved north to Holland and came across to Britian and would of eventually engaged with their British cousins I myself have a distant Great Aunt who was such so Dorinda being a Spanish name by origin the penfolds I believe became Gypsies! much earlier than the Valentine marriage [if they had not been Gypsy in the first instance that is]......on the 4th May 1796 Willielraus Volentyne baptised at Cumbernauld the son of Willemi [Raus means a Brawler].....early marriages for penfold to a spouse with a known adopted Gypsy surname but not recorded as such are 1657 Edward to Mary Hunter,Midlothian...1683 Robert to Martha Cootar,Sussex...I was told many years ago that Cootar was the original Gypsy surname which later became Cooper....but then there's always another story......

Ref;M.S.G/S P.99-S.R.S VOL21.P.138.1915-C.W/AAS.EXTRA SERIES 1892-O.E.S.L.PP57/77 1898-LPRS.VOL 41 1911-M.P.R/VPWP VOL 4 P89-JGLS.V.220.1-OWN COLLATED RECORDS.

Travelling People / A Gypsy Childs Christmas [Rhona Boswell]
« on: Tuesday 24 December 13 17:15 GMT (UK)  »
The child arose and danced through the frozen dells,Drawn by the Christmas chimes and soon she sale Where, neath the snow around the churchyard gate, The ploughman slept in bramble-banded cells; The gorgios pass'd,half-fearing Gypsy spells, While Rhona gazing, seem'd to meditate; Then laugh'd for joy, then wept disconsolate; "De poor dead gorgios cannot hear de bells".
Within the church the clouds of gorgio-breath Arose, a steam of lazy praise and prayer To him who weaves the loving Christmas-stair O'er sorrow and sin and wintry deeps of Death; But where stood He? Beside our Rhona there, Remembering childish tears in Nazareth.

From "The Coming Of Love" Rhona Boswell Story Eighth Edition.

Travelling People / New Forest Gypsies 1907
« on: Saturday 07 December 13 11:53 GMT (UK)  »
New Forest alleged Gypsy Village "Morning Leader 3rd June 1907 also Christchurch Times 15th june and the Northern Echo,Darlington 10th july"
Thorny Hill on the outskirts of the New Forest for many years past the population has been principally Gypsies now about 100 marriages between them and the rustics are not uncommon caravans are seldom seen,The Gypsies live in thatched cottages.In the springtime a family or two get "on the move" and return when summer is over.All have adopted English names,Scott and Pateman being the favourite.They are very clannish and quite commonly three generations live together in the same cottage.The elder woman cling to the Romany headdress,earrings are a de rigueur for both sexes.The woman go to Bournmouth on Tuesdays,thursdays and Saturdays to sell flowers [the wild ox-eye daisy was a great favourite with them some ten years ago].The men drive them in pony-carts to Christchurch eight miles distant and then they go by train to Bournemouth the double journey costs sixpence,They keep cows and requisition the forest ponies.
On the 12th of June in the Morning Leader W G Reed a resident near Thorney Hill challenged the for-going account,stating that just three men wear earrings;strawberry-growing,stick-making and farming are the chief industries and that there are only three families of Scotts and three of Pateman but there are ten distinct families of Broomfields who are positively not of Gypsy orgin.

Travelling People / When a Gypsy is not a Gypsy "Historical Content"
« on: Saturday 07 December 13 11:16 GMT (UK)  »
A shortened and re edited extract from the WeeklyTimes 9th January 1880

One of the reporters and myself visited a Gypsy encampment on the outskirts of London a sunday or two ago,The lane was full of tenanted houses and between these was a yard to deposit garbage Gypsies had placed their caravans and tents there most of them were related to each other after spending a few hours with these people we came to the conclusion that in the bounds of this metropolis it would of been impossible for any of them to call themselves Gypsies as there was not a true Gypsy amongst them they were idle loafers who had adopted a wandering life for maximum idle hours and minimum work hours they exhibited countenances in their attitudes the woman by their dirtiness and children by their filthy condition they had escaped from house restraint of the daily routine the men's ambition was to gain a small amount of money on a Saturday for a few days food not one man could solder a kettle a few could mend a chair others shaved skewers then sold them to a butcher for 10d in the week the wife hawked small wool mat's or vase's none they had made themselves and the grown up lad's got flower's from Covent Garden and hawked them in the suburbs non could read or write, these witless people were content with poverty,hunger,dirt and the cold the genuine Gypsy Tribe we have a sentimental pity for but these people in Lambs Lane we have no manner of sympathy.

Travelling People / Westminster Gypsies 1815
« on: Sunday 10 November 13 20:06 GMT (UK)  »
A list of gypsies around Westminster in 1815 only the head of household given stating if wife and number of children but no first names but the occupation is given.

John Lovell/wife/6 children,chair bottomer,tunbridge street
James Lovell/wife/6 children,tinker,church lane
Joseph Lovell/wife/3 children,chair bottomer,new street
Thomas Lovell/wife/2 children,chair bottomer,banbridge street
William Lovell/wife/1 child,knife grinder,church street
Lussha Cooper/wife/10 children,rat chatcher,tottenham court road
Corrie Lovell/wife/5 children,knife grinder,bolton street
Uriah Lovell/wife/6 children,chair bottomer,bolton street
Thomas Llovell/wife/7 children,knife grinder,paddington
Solomon Lovell/wife/4 children,chair bottomer,new street
Solomon Jones/wife/2 children,basket maker-wire worker,battle bridge
John Lee/wife/9 children,chair bottomer,tothil fields
Richard Taylor/wife/3 children,wire worker,new street
Betsey Lovell/widow,supported by son joseph lovell
JosephLlovell/wife/1 child,bellows mender,shore ditch
Diana Lee/widow/1 child,sells earthenware,shore ditch
Mansfield Lee/wife/no children,tinker and grinder,shore ditch
Zachariah Lee/wife/no children,fiddler-travels the country
Thomas Smith/wife/5 children,chair bottomer,lisson green,paddington
Thomas Porter/wife/3 children,works at the canal,paddington
Charlotte Allen/widow/7 children,sells earthernware,kent street,borough
James Cole,wife/4 children,lamplighter and grinder,kent street,borough
Edward Martin/wife/2 children,sells fruit in the street,kent street borough
Samuel Martin/wife/6 children,journeyman saddler,white street
John Sinfield/wife/6 children,sells fish in the streets,white street
John Taylor/wife/3 children,sells fish in the streets,white street

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