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Topics - Richard Knott

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The Common Room / Can an 'aunt' be a great-aunt in the 18th century?
« on: Monday 12 February 24 12:30 GMT (UK)  »
Sarah Nott's will of 1757 mentions her sister, Elizabeth ABRAHAMS; her two daughters (Sarah, b1701 who married Chester Moor Hall in 1750; and Margaret, bc1705, who married Hugh Nightingale in 1721 (!)); and her nephew John Kennedy, to whom she left money to finish his apprenticeship.

John's apprenticeship papers (1745) say that he is being sponsored by his aunt, Mrs Sarah Nott, which fits well.

I cannot find Sarah's marriage to James Nott (c1677-1721) in about 1700 but, if she was an aunt, her maiden name would be Kennedy or Holbred as John Kennedy was born in 1732 to Charles (b1705) and Ann (nee Holbred) Kennedy.

All these baptisms and marriages took place in the SE corner of Essex (Foulness area).

My problem is that Sarah is at least 25 years older than her sibling (Charles or Ann); and I can't find her marriage to James Nott or her sister's marriage to a Mr Abrahams to conform a surname. Might she be one generation further removed from John Kennedy?


Armed Forces / Families during the Indian Mutiny
« on: Saturday 06 January 24 15:18 GMT (UK)  »
Did families of non-officers travel to India during the Indian Mutiny?

Launcelot Minns spent over twenty years in the Royal Artillery as a gunner, winning three medals but being court martialled for drinking four times. He served in India from 4 Aug 1857 - 19 Jul 1862.

He had a son, Edward, born in December 1857 while he was in India (but conceived just after he came out of prison!). Edward does not appear in any records apart from a possible death at sea in Jan 1860 aged two (or one on another record). He was on board the Cossipore and was one of eighty deaths on the way to Bombay. The only other Edward Minns of the right age appears to have died in Norfolk in 1857.

I assume this is not my Edward but it would be good to have that confirmed. Apart from anything else, his mother (Elizabeth) was back in England by 1861 with their daughter, living with another man.



The Common Room / Elizabeth MINNS in Devon and Essex
« on: Thursday 04 January 24 15:12 GMT (UK)  »
This a rehash of a post I made in 2010 which didn't lead to any information:

Elizabeth LANE was born in Bigbury, Devon in 1826.
In the 1841 (aged 15) and the 1851 (aged 22) she is a servant in Bigbury/Stoke Damerel.

In 1852 she married Lancelot MINNS, a gunner & driver. They had two children in Bigbury that I know of: Emily Jane Lane MINNS (1853) and Edward Launcelot MINNS (1857).

Lancelot MINNS spends most of the next twenty years fighting abroad before returning in 1871 and moving back to live alone in Northumberland where he was born (he died there in 1884).  Oddly, in 1861, Elizabeth seems to have remarried and moved to Woodham Walter in Essex:

John COE, 65; Hannah COE, 68, wife; Eliz Ellen COE, 29, mar, daughter-in-law, b Bigbury, Devon; Emily MINNS, 7, visitor, b Plymouth.

I cannot explain this entry. John had three sons, but none appear to have married Elizabeth.

I can't find Elizabeth or Emily after 1861 except for another odd entry in 1891 in Woodford, Essex (about 30 miles west of Woodham Walter):

Eliz L MINNS (indexed as MUNNIS), widow, 60, mother, b Devon
Laura BESANT, 30, widow, dau, b London
Ralph BESANT, 31, son, b Scotland

The strange relationships don't appear to fit and, of course, this may not be Elizabeth LANE/MINNS/COE

Any sightings of Elizabeth, Emma or Edward after 1861 would be appreciated. (There is a death of an Edward MINNS, aged 2, at sea in 1860; but hat would mean that the family accompanied Lancelot and then came back before 1861). The Elizabeth married to Joshua COE is not the right person.


Worcestershire / Thelsea Grove in 1901
« on: Saturday 16 December 23 17:07 GMT (UK)  »
Thelsea Lilian GROVE's birth is registered in Sep 1897.
She appears in the 1911 census with her mother, Alice Grove, living in Harborne, Worcs, where it says that she was born in Smethwick (ie part of Harborne).
Her mother is with her family in 1901 in Harborne, but there is no sign of Thelsea.
Have they hidden her through the shame of illegitimacy or is there a more prosaic answer?

Essex / Is this enough evidence to prove a connection?
« on: Saturday 08 April 23 10:41 BST (UK)  »
I am hoping to prove that George Knott and his brother William were part of the well-researched NOTT family based around Sible Hedingham; in particular, that they were the children of William (1722-1780) and Ann (nee Theobald, died 1782). Apologies for the long entry.

George KNOTT was a gardener in Barking and had the following children there: Mary Anne (1783), Joseph Alexander (1784-1849), George (1787- 88), George Alexander (1789-1865), William (1792-1821), Robert (1794-1858) and John (Alexander) (1797-1820). He probably married Elizabeth Beal in Whitechapel in 1782 (she was born in Barking and one of their grandchildren was called Elizabeth Beale Knott). He left a will, including money invested in a bank and a gold watch when he died in 1831, aged 73.

I cannot find any George (K)NOTTs born in Middlesex at the right time. For many years I had focused my attention on SE Essex because another of George’s grandchildren was called James Pullen Knott and there is a marriage in 1742 between a William Nott and Martha Pullen in Great Stambridge. I have a letter from William Camp, written in 1981 when he was Director of the Society of Genealogists, saying that the connection was ‘quite likely’. There is an extensive land owning family around Foulness but, for various reasons, I now think it isn’t the right one.

There are two possible Elizabeth Beale baptisms, both with father Joseph. One, a gardener with connections to Barking, proved not to be connected ;and the other one, based in Barking and probably the right one, has provided no useful information.

The only other Knott entries at Barking are for a baptism of George, son of William and Martha Knott, in 1779; and four burials: an unnamed child in 1783 (possibly another of William and Martha’s children); Martha (1798); Joseph (1799) and William (1800). No ages are given.

William is almost certainly the same as the William, a gardener, who married Martha House in Finchingfield in 1770. They had two children baptised in Wethersfield (Joseph, 1771 and Edy, 1772) and one in Bocking (William, 1774). There is a removal order, dated 20 Apr 1775, requiring William and Martha to move back from Bocking back to Finchingfield, together with their children Joseph (4), Henrietta (2) – presumably this is Edy - and William (7m).

Gosfield is 6 miles from Wethersfield (and 9 from Finchingfield). William and Ann Nott had the following children there: Hannah (1746-46), William (1747), Richard (1750-51), Hannah (1752-53), Elizabeth (1754-54), John (1755-56), Susanna (1759-59) and George (1760). Only two children survived infancy: William and George. Their parents died in 1780 (William) and 1782 (Ann).

So, did William join his brother in Barking around the time their father died? The coincidence of dates and places makes it a possibility. However, this doesn’t explain why both William and George both named their eldest sons Joseph (George’s case can be explained by his father-in-law, who might have helped them given that George’s own father was dead). It also doesn’t explain why George gave three of his sons the middle name Alexander.


Armed Forces / Army marriage in Peshawar
« on: Tuesday 09 November 21 09:31 GMT (UK)  »
How would I obtain a marriage certificate for an army officer (RAMC) who married in Peshawar (now Pakistan) in 1940?


The Lighter Side / Unidentified blazer badge
« on: Thursday 14 October 21 14:24 BST (UK)  »
Can anyone identify this please? It was found in a school archive so may well be associated with sport.

It appears to have the initials NCHA above a Tudor Rose, although the rose is unusual in that I have always seen the white rose offset from the red rose (ie rotated through 36 degrees).

There are groups with the initials NCHA (including some ending Hockey Association) but none that I have seen with this emblem.


Wales / Becoming a teacher in the early 20th century
« on: Friday 27 August 21 08:01 BST (UK)  »
In the 1911 census (Sy/idney Jenkins) is listed as a 17 year-old 'school teacher' in Aberdare (his father and eight brothers would all become miners). In 1939 he is still in Aberdare as an elementary school teacher and he would go on to become a headmaster (as listed on a list of famous former pupils at Park Schools. He may be the Sidney Jenkins on a list of pupils who obtained the Junior School certificate in 1910 and may be the Sidney Jenkins who became HM of St Pagan's School some time before 1952.

I have seen pupils become pupil teachers at that time but usually in private schools, but did this happen in state schools as well? Would he have had to gain some qualifications at some stage? His decision to become a teacher seems unusual from his background and I wonder how hard it would have been.


Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Latin on 1711 document
« on: Sunday 25 April 21 17:42 BST (UK)  »
This low definition document accompanied the 1711 will for Mary Costen on Ancestry where the main beneficiary was a minor, Mary Wild.

This is signed by her father, William Wild, and her uncle, Thomas Costen. The only reference I have to Thomas' profession is in 1721 when he was described as a schoolmaster in Woking, although I know his father was a yeoman.

I think this refers to both Woking (Okeing) and to Thomas being a yeoman/farmer (agricolam), but I'm wondering whether any of the words I can't read say anything more.

Now to reconcile his being a farmer and schoolmaster...


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