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Topics - venelow

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Lancashire / Greenal or Greenall - a place in Lancashire
« on: Monday 16 August 21 17:02 BST (UK)  »
Good Day Lancs Rootschatters

I have a reference to Greenal being the abode of someone buried at Kirkham in 1797.
Googling didn't help much.

I got a hit on Greenall as the birth place of Jane Jackson born 1816 and living at Great Eccleston in 1851. Otherwise lots of hits for Greenall as a surname but not a place name.

Does anyone know where Greenal / Greenall is or was? 

By the way the person who died there in 1797 had connections with Great Ecclestone so I am assuming Greenal is/was somewhere nearby to G.E.

Hoping someone local knows this place. Thanks for reading.


Hi Rootschatters

Has any one else who uses Ancestry noticed all the extra stuff appearing in the Profile Person's Facts. In addition to the things like Birth Death Marriage Occupation etc. that we choose to add all the person's relatives' vital facts are added automatically in a grey shaded box.
Birth of Sister, Death of Father, Birth of Son, Death of Half-Sister etc. all listed under the Facts column and cluttering up the page so one has to scroll down through a lot of duplication of facts that really don't need to be there. There is a link for each person listed to take one to their Profile.

One of my trees has a man who had two wives and twenty children (some were twins). He also had thirteen siblings. There are over thirty grey shaded boxes attached to his Facts. It makes for a very cluttered look.
Most of this information already appears on the right side of the page (parents and wife and children)
and can be easily clicked on for further information.
I am assuming the purpose is to create a timeline showing what age the Profile person was when various milestones happened. Surely there is a better way to do this?

Has anyone found out if this "feature" can be turned off?


Canada / Wilton Cemetery, Wilton near Odessa, Ontario.
« on: Wednesday 21 July 21 19:58 BST (UK)  »
Good Day Rootschatters

Does anyone know the date or year when Wilton Cemeteryburial was first in use? I am looking for a burial in 1880 and think I may have found the person on the OFCA site but dates are not mentioned on the site.

I have found a news story about the cemetery in 1884 but that is as close to 1880 as I have got.

I would like to know if someone who died in April 1880 could be buried there.

Thanks for reading.

Canada / Court Records in Ontario
« on: Wednesday 10 February 21 21:24 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Canadian Roots Chatters

Someone I have been corresponding with in the US has asked me about Court Records in Ontario in the 1860s and 1870s. An ancestor of hers was running two families in Ontario and Michigan and she wants to know if he was ever charged and convicted of desertion or bigamy. I found a list of prisoners on a site run by Michael Stephenson, however the miscreant's name or his assumed name do not appear.

The Canadian family lived in Durham County in 1850s - 1870s. How were such cases handled at that time? If he was fined or ordered to pay for his children's upkeep as opposed to jail time, which it seems would be counterproductive, do any court records of such cases survive?

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.
Thanks for reading.

Staffordshire / Harper Family of Sedgley
« on: Thursday 19 November 20 21:13 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Rootschatters of Staffs

Does anyone have information on the family of Thomas and Jane Harper of Sedgley?  Their first child was Elizabeth baptized 4 Dec 1726. I am interested in John baptized 16 Dec 1739. Does anyone know what happened to him? According to many trees he went to Yorkshire and married there. Variously described as an ag-lab or husbandman.

Since Yorkshire is quite a way from Sedgley I am not sure if the move to Yorkshire is correct. I have not been able to find any evidence to support his going to Yorkshire. Supposedly he is the same John Harper who married Hannah Newlove at Wetwang in 1771.

Sedgley is a parish that is only indexed on Ancestry, FindMyPast and Family Search online so I can't check the original images to see if he died young or married in Staffordshire. The marriage in Yorkshire states he was of Catwick (ERY) but that does not necessarily mean he was born there. His mother is said to be Jane Turner but I have not found and index or an image of a suitable Harper/Turner marriage.

Information gratefully received. Thanks for reading.

The Common Room / Apprenticeship without consideration of money or other value
« on: Sunday 23 August 20 23:27 BST (UK)  »
Hi Rootschatters

Under what circumstances would a London Master in the Drapers' Company take an Apprentice for no money or other value?

It is not a charity case as the father was rich enough to pay. He was turned over to his father a few months later. His father was not in the same trade as his original Master.

The Apprentice was admitted to the Drapers' after seven years but does not seem to have actually worked in the trade he was apprenticed to. In fact I suspect he never actually performed the duties of a Draper's Apprentice. He became a clergyman.

I can't see the benefit to him in doing this. Or why he would be permitted to do so.
Can anyone enlighten me?


Armed Forces / 2nd Battalion First Regiment of Foot
« on: Tuesday 28 January 20 22:15 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Armed RootsChatters

I have a quick question because I want to make sure I have the right Regiment. I have a chap who was made Ensign by purchase in the First Regiment of Foot in 1836. In 1840 he becomes a Lieutenant by purchase in the same Regiment and in 1847 he is made an Adjutant. Not by purchase. So I assume a promotion. All this information comes from announcements in the newspapers.

In 1848 he died of Typhus fever in County Down.  His memorial (erected by his brother officers) says he is was of the 2nd Battalion "The Royal Regiment".

My questions is was this 1st Regiment of Foot or Royal Regiment the same as the Grenadier Guards? Would the 2nd Battalion be the same as the 2nd Battalion Grenadier Guards who went to Canada (Quebec) in 1839 - 1842?
I am reading the histories but some what confused by the name changes. It seems a lot of Regiments have Royal in their titles.

Also, having been to Canada and returned to where? Edinburgh? London? What was the 2nd Battalion doing in County Down in 1848? Or could he have just been on leave when he died? Apparently there was a Typhus epidemic in Ireland at the time.

Hope some Army history specialist can help. Many thanks

Oxfordshire / William Combe (Combs) and variants son of Samuell
« on: Sunday 26 January 20 01:37 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Oxford Chatters

I find myself in new territory regarding research. I am researching William Combs of London. He was a Barber Surgeon and in 1711 his father Samuell/Samuel paid a whopping five pounds (over 500 in today's money) to apprentice his son to George Collup Citizen and Barber-Surgeon of London. It is stated on the Indenture that Samuel was a Labourer so that was definitely some feat to come up with that kind of money.

The indenture also states Samuel was of Checkingden in the County of Oxford. Presumably Checkendon but I have not found any Comb/Combs/Combes etc. in Checkendon. I looked at the original records but they only go from 1720. I was hoping to find Samuel's death. Then I looked on Family Search. The batch number is C024392 and runs from 1639 - 1813. I assume these are the BTs but not one Combe(s) appeared.

After his apprenticeship was completed William got his own apprentice in 1720. This was Henry Simons the son of William Simons a Maltster of Henley. So I thought I would look there but found no parish records for Henley (on Thames) on Family Search. Is this really the case? There is no batch number for Henley. Does it come under another place?

I was working on the theory that Henry Simons might be a relative of William Combes, maybe a nephew. William did well for himself and married a young woman who was minted. Money, Stocks and a half share in three houses according to her Uncle John's Will. 

I  have searched on Family Search, FindMyPast and Ancestry and cannot find William son of Samuel.  I am wondering if the father's name is not correct on the indenture as William did not name any son of his Samuel. But he tried three times to name a daughter Elizabeth.

Any ideas/information gratefully received.


The Common Room / A Crossley Challenge - Richard of Darton.
« on: Monday 20 January 20 21:30 GMT (UK)  »
Hi RootsChatters

For those of you that like a challenge during the long winter nights of the Northern hemisphere I present Richard Crossley/Crosley of Barugh in the Parish of Darton, Yorkshire,  occupation Farmer. Richard married Mary Dyson at Darton in 1787 but there is no baptism for him there.

Many think he was baptized at Wath-upon-Dearne in 1759 but I have found Richard of Wath, a cooper by trade, married Rachel Rayner at Bolton-on Dearne and after a spell in Pontefract they moved to Hooten Pagnell. He is living with his son Jesse, also a cooper, at Hooten in 1841.

Others think Richard was born at Barnsley in 1760. However there is no Baptism there. He died at Darton in April 1816 and was aged 56 according to the Burial Register or 57 according to his tombstone. So 1760 or 1759.

Regarding his parents, a large number of trees state his parents are John Crossley and Bethia(h) Webster of Warley Halifax. This John (1740-1820) was a carpet weaver and his son John started the well-known Crossley Carpet Factory. However John and Bethia married at Halifax in 1763. Neither had been married before. They were associated with the Independent Chapel at Warley and possibly later at the Square Chapel in Halifax.  In fact the records indicate that a Richard son of John Crosley was baptized at Warley Chapel on 30 March 1766. This is not surprising since Bethia's father was called Richard.

There was a John Crossley born at Darton in 1728. He was a butcher and for a while I had him marked as a candidate for Richard's father as butcher to farmer was not an unusual career move. He was the son of a butcher called John who came from Penistone. Then I found out John Jr. died in 1755 so that theory was blown away.  There was a posthumous child but it was a girl.

Back to Richard the Farmer in Darton.  I had already noted (years ago) three marriages of Crosley men in the surrounding area. Joseph to Sarah Gray 1785 at Wath-upon-Dearne; Thomas to Ann Kay in 1773 at Royston; William to Mary Whitworth in 1776 at Hemsworth; all the grooms stated to be "of Darton".

Then I came across a record for a Will for a John Crosley of Barugh, Darton probate date Feb 7th 1800.

The Will states that John is a Farmer and that his son Richard is made Executor of the Will and is to get the lease of the farm at Barugh. He is also to provide for John's wife Ann. This wording might suggest that Ann was not Richard's mother so that is a thing to consider. Anyway Ann died a short while after her husband in March 1800.

Darton Burials did not record an age at death until forced to by the Rose Act so there is no record of John's age but I would guess he was born around 1725.

The most interesting fact in the Will is that John calls Richard "his youngest son."  The other sons get small sums of money. Their names are John, Joseph, Thomas and William.
So three match up with the marriage records I found. Also mentioned is John's grandson, John the son of William.  Richard had quite a few children by 1800 but none are mentioned. No other names occur in the Will. The witnesses appear to be local men and not related. John Crosley signed his Will with a X.

Apart from the marriages I have not found any trace of this Crosley/Crossley family. They must have come to Darton after about 1760 as there are no Darton baptisms until Richard's children. I have not found a suitable John Crosley and Ann marriage or any trace of baptisms for the five sons. I have not found William's son John either. William married by Licence and was stated to be 21 yrs and Mary 22yrs. So he was born about 1755. I have looked in Parish and Non-Conformist records on FindMyPast and Ancestry as well as Family Search indexes.

So many people have Richard of Darton down as part of the Halifax Carpet Clan that the power of the algorithms just adds more credence. Even when I have sent some tree owners the information from the Will some who have responded cannot comprehend what it means. Somebody suggested I look for Richard's birth in Halifax "because some of his siblings were born there".

So where did John and Ann and the five sons come from?  I have been searching but have not found any of them. I have not found John the son of William either. And does anyone know what happened to John and Bethia's son Richard baptized in 1776? That would help strengthen the case for Richard of Darton not being part of the Halifax family. Malcolm Bull's Halifax site has no mention of Richard being John and Bethia's son.  Or anyone else's for that matter.

Thanks for reading. If you take up this challenge - Good Luck. If you have some information re the sons I would love to see it. I haven't come to any conclusion who John (Richard's brother) may have married.
(Sorry this is lengthy but I wanted to make sure everyone has all the information I have found)


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