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Hi folks, I'm wondering if any of you have come  across an Elie family.
JOHN PATRICK & MARGARET DOWNIE m.3 Nov 1745 in Elie, Fife
Their kids:
JOHN PATRICK             x.14 Sep 1746 Newburn, FIF      IGI  C114514 
JAMES PATRICK             b.1 May 1748 x.May 1748 Elie, FIF   IGI C114272 
ANDREW PATRICK     b.27 Jun 1750 x.1 Jly 1750 Elie, FIF   IGI C114272 
WILLIAM PATRICK      b.5 Nov 1753 x.11 Nov 1753 Elie, FIF   IGI C114272 
MARGARET PATRICK     b.8 Oct 1755  x.12 Oct 1755 Elie,  FIF   IGI C114272 
JANET PATRICK             b.24 Dec 1757 x.25 Dec1757 Elie,  FIF   IGI C114272 

I'm particularly interested in the family's occupation plus the son WILLIAM
Who did he marry? 

There are two William Patricks born in 1753 and I suspect mine is one of them.  The other is born in Forgan Fife and could equally be him.  There is a temptation to link to them however, I really feel the need to make sure I'm making the right choice.  So far, data is somewhat thin on the ground.

JAMES PATRICK & KATHARINE WEEMS m.15 FEB 1739 Forgan FIF
Their kids:
DAVID PATRICK     x.25 NOV 1739 Forgan FIF   all C114312
ELIZABETH PATRICK   x.1 NOV 1741 Forgan
MARY PATRICK            x.4 DEC 1743 Forgan
KATHARINE PATRICK  x.22 DEC 1745 Forgan
JAMES PATRICK     x.6 MAR 1748 Forgan    
JOHN PATRICK             x.18 FEB 1750 Forgan
WILLIAM PATRICK    x.10 Jan 1753 Forgan FIF   chr. after his dad's death.

Some researchers have adopted the latter William for the marriage I have in mind, but present no reasoned argument for their choice.  I'd just like to make sure.  It's not a particularly popular choice of forename amongst the Patricks it seems and for that i should be thankful. 

They don't appear to have followed the more common family naming system either!

Thank you for your time and trouble

hi folks, a happy new year to you all and I hope you have a very successful wall crunching year ahead of you.
I know there is a item on the tower Hamlets BMD url in the archives. i came on it, but it isn't the type of message that can be answered.  There is no reply button, hence the new thread.

However, that message did reassure me that yes, i did indeed have the correct url for thbmd.co.uk, the only problem is, it's dead!   
http://www.thbmd.co.uk/search.php  doesn't work   
When you visit the url, this is the response:


 "This is the standard index of your website. You can easily delete it or replace it with another file. This is the index.html file in the web directory.
For questions or problems please contact the server administrator."    ehm!

However, there is no link to whoever the server admin is, so i could take it no further.   Anyone got any suggestions?  If they've changed their url, I'd like the new one please; if they don't know it is broken, how do we contact them to let them know?

cheers for now

Fionnghal

hi folks, i have read with interest many of the Common Room posts relating to DNA testing not least the leading questions set by nickgc here: DNA Testing - Why Not  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,569443.0.html. however, i was surprised by the proportion of totally negative responses that got thrown up.  While i wouldn't suggest DNA testing as one's first choice, it can be a very useful tool in proving lines, illegitimate or otherwise.  The  responses, both negative and positive had grown to umpteen pages of posts so i thought it wise to start again afresh rather than post onto the tail end of one of the other threads.

Judging by the warm response to the subject, i suggest the rootschat team - great folk all - track down a willing and knowledgeable enthusiast to moderate a Rootschat DNA topic as a subject.  I for one would love some advice on this fascinating subject, one which is scarily scientific for us poor souls who have not been sufficiently well immersed in said science.   I think the negative responses are down to folks' misunderstanding as to all the possibilities that can come out of using DNA testing to boost one's family research. 

As a double birthday present, our younger son got the Y-DNA [to 67 markers - for dad] and the mt-DNA [for my personal interest ] tests done and my brother, in the interests of my family research, kindly arranged for his to be tested.  Lucky me, i get both of mine + my husbands yDNA results   So far there have been no bites but we believe that will change for the better soon.   For instance, I am well and truly stuck at 1800 with my father's direct male line.  I've got superb documentary evidence back till then, however, we came unstuck then as my William says he's "of Surrey" in the 1841 census but admits to being born in Southampton Hants in the 1851.  Hm!  Well, i set to and i find various useful bits of info including, not least, a suitable christening record in the Southampton OPR - checked the very film to pick up any extra information not included in the IGI's; checked all the 1841 & 1851's to see if there was another William who could claim that birth [no, didn't appear to be]; checked all suitable Williams who may have been buried in the intervening time, none that i could find.  Found the 1829 Will of the supposed father in which he included a son William - but not where he was to be found.  Daingead!! 

so, to recap - verifyable papertrail
1] a William born in Southampton corresponding to 1851 census
2]  occupation.  my William a London cheesemonger, but having checked all the birthlines of all his known children we find he changed occupations between birth and death of his infant daughter Mary Ann, in 1828.  He started out a carpenter then became a cheesemonger - haven't discovered the whys and wherefores yet.  The Southampton parent and siblings were carpenters
3]  the possible father, James, mentions a son William in his will dated 1829, so, his son William was still alive then wherever he was.
4] no other William apparent competing for the 1800 birth or the Will
5] family names.  William has used many of the same names for his sons and daughters that this 'parents' and 'siblings' have used.

These are all worthwhile pieces of evidence and all with their related individual bits of paper, however, they remain circumstantial in relation to linking the two families.  Paperwork aplenty, but none making that all important direct link between these two Surrey & Hampshire families.  Checkmate!   

However, i recently heard from some descendants of a 'sibling' - a relationship we subsequently proved through thorough research.  And they are willing to go the DNA route.  Here is a case of DNA possibly answering a question which has been impossible up until now.  If the two match, we have family and common forebears.  There is still the possibility of illegitimacy or adoption clouding the horizon of course - that's always a consideration that should never be forgotten.  Without birth control, women were very vulnerable either from seduction, rape or the death of a potential marriage partner after she falls pregnant while in the expectation of marriage and of course adoption whether of an illegitimate grandchild or some other child subsequently given the family name.  This could simply be the adoption of a sibling's child on the death of said sibling. Still, it is a way to go, and gives us a genetic tool that others seeking relationships to the family under study can make use of.  Not for use instead of a paper trail, but to supplement or corroborate the evidence.

I believe my understanding of the DNA factor is right:
1] that my father's line [given that there was no intervening adoption or hanky-panky under the bedclothes] passes on to his male descendants, the same y-DNA haplogroup of all his foregoing paternal fathers

2] Mum passes on her mt-DNA haplogroup [not to be confused with the X chromosome.  The X doesn't come into it] to all her children - both sons and daughters.  The daughters pass it on to their female descendants.   Hoever, it is only passed on to her own sons, not her grandsons.  Because sons inherit their own mum's mt-DNA, their male descendents mt-DNA alters with each generation.  No doubt this can be put to use in tracking lines.  It may be one of those that are available now, I'm not sure.

Thank you for your time. 

Fionnghal

hi folks, I have an
EDWARD PIPER, s of EDWARD, b.c.1760-70 poss. c.1766 unproven but most likely Amport HAM where his siblings were christened.

When he settled in Lewisham i don't know; his wife was ELIZABETH

He had siblings JOHN, ELIZABETH, WILLIAM, SARAH

I've found no death or burial for either of them but know he definitely d. betw. 1828-32 a Lewisham resident

I've no occupation for him but by 1828, he was living at: 
7 Ordnance Row, Lewisham KEN.  The property adjoined the Ordnance Arms and though it sounds from the will that he owned the Ordnance Arms, but it isn't absolutely clear that he did.  However, his brother was involved with Inns, so perhaps it was a family trade so to speak. 

His will was proven in 1 Feb 1832.  It would appear he either had no kids or none survived him as he makes no mention of any in his will.  He does however, mention various relatives incl. SARAH HUNTER a niece; niece & nephews JOHN, THOMAS & MARY WOOD; great nieces SARAH & HARRIOT HUNTER.

Does anyone have access to any burial records that would help out with the above couple?  Does anyone realte to them at all?

thanks for your time and trouble

le durachd

Fionnghal

Please, if some kind soul has a copy of the Kirkhope MIs, would they mind doing me a look-up.

There is apparently a MACMILLAN gravestone and I'd very much like to know who is/are slumbering under it.

Thank you for your time and trouble

le durachd

Fionnghal