RootsChat.Com

Hi,

I have what I hope is a simple question about abbreviations used in the Index to Prerogative Grant Books.

The page that I am interested in is here http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246589_00472.pdf

It shows (among other things)

Whiteside, William, Charlemont, Grange, 1695, com, 143
...
Whiteside, William, Ballydonaghy, Antrim, Gent, 1695, W, 158

Since this is an index, I assume that these are references to two different books, a book of wills (W) and a book of something else, com.

I can see a Betham's abstract for the will of the gent of Ballydonaghy, which mentions sons John and William. I think that these two were Quakers who lived in Grange, near Charlemont, Tyrone.

Would the 'com' entry relate to the administration of the 'W' entry? And if so, would the name (William Whiteside) be that of the testator or of the administrator? If it doesn't relate to the administration of the will, what is it?

I can see on the same page that other entries appear to be duplicated in a similar way, for example John Warren has the same pair of a W and a com and John Williams has an l (letters of admin?) and a com.

So what is 'com' and is the name there the testator or what?

Many thanks,

Alan

Hi,

On 31 October 1756 in St Mary Le Strand, Mary Tong spinster of this parish married Henry Todd bachelor of St Clement Danes by licence. A succession of children was christened to them in St Clement Danes, starting the following year and including my ancestor George (christened 15 Jun 1760). Two others Griffith Henry (christened in St Martin in the Fields 28 Feb 1773) and Frances (St George Hanover Square 28 April 1776) are probably also theirs. (Westminster parish records available on FindmyPast.)

The witnesses at their wedding were both called William Tong, possibly the bride's father and brother.

William Tong of Chelsea in the parish of St George Hanover Square (presumably the brother) wrote a will dated 5 September 1797 which was proved in the Canterbury Court on 10 March 1804. (He was buried in St Mary Le Strand on 7 March 1804.) The will is fairly long and difficult to read but it mentions among others, his nephews George and Griffith Todd, his sister Ann wife of John Saunderson (they married at St Martin in the Fields on 12 June 1774), John Saunderson of Penrith, Cumberland, son of John Saunderson, William Saunderson also son of John Saunderson the father, the testator's late brother in law Griffith Williams (and two of the late Griffith's faithful clerks) and Frances Williams, daughter of the late Sir Hugh Williams of somewhere that might read Beaumaris North Wales (on Anglesey).

Assuming that this reading is correct, Sir Hugh Williams would have been the baronet/MP described here http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1754-1790/member/williams-sir-hugh-1718-94 who died in 1794. He had a daughter Frances Emma christened in Beaumaris on 10 Oct 1765 who may well have been the Frances mentioned in the will.

Apart from a James Saunderson christened in St Martin in the Fields in June 1789 to parents John and Ann, I am struggling to find other records of the family - anything else on the Saundersons, birth and death records of Mary nee Tong and husband George Todd, their marriage licence, a birth for William Tong in the will, anything on William Tong the father, anything sure on Griffith Williams or anything to clarify the relationship between the Saundersons and the Williamses.

This is essentially a continuation of an earlier thread on the Todds (here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=745934.msg6437514#msg6437514). Rootschatters were then very helpful in clarifying other parts of the Todd family, although at that stage we did not find the Todd/Tong marriage or related christenings. As I explained in the earlier thread, FamilySearch, following a pedigree prepared by a cousin George William Todd, had the wife of Henry Todd and the mother of George and Griffith Henry as Frances Williams. It also showed her descent from John of Gaunt via Sir Griffith Williams (wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Griffith_Williams,_1st_Baronet - 1st Baronet in the line in which sir Hugh was the 8th) whose name was said to be the source of the christian name Griffith which appears throughout the Todd family tree.

I think that the Todd/Tong marriage and subsequent christenings show that this pedigree was wrong, but the presence of a Frances Williams, a Griffith Williams and a Williams baronet in William Tong's will suggest that there might have been an element of truth in it.

I would love to uncover the real relationship between the Todd, Tong and Willams families and would be very grateful for any help that Rootschatters might be able to give.

Many thanks,


Alan Watson

Hi,

I would be very grateful for help with information on the family of Charles Reynolds, broker of Red Cross Street, St Mary Overy, Surrey, whose will was proved in the Canterbury Court on 13 February 1767.

He was probably buried on 12 February 1767 in St Alfege in Greenwich where he had property.

His will mentions his wife Diana, son George Reynolds, daughter Ann Dale wife of James Dale broker, son John Reynolds and daughter Mary Blunt wife of Robert Blunt.

The will of his wife Diana was proved in the Canterbury Court on 26 June 1787. It mentions her son John and his wife Ann and her two daughters Ann Dale and Mary Blunt, but not a son George. The will was proved by the two daughters, both then widows.

Mary Blunt nee Reynolds was my 4th great grandmother. She married first Edward Burbidge on 19 February 1750 in St Andrews Holborn and then Robert Blunt on 28 January 1764 in St George’s Southwark. The witnesses at this second marriage were John and Ann Reynolds, presumably her brother and sister-in-law. She and her husband Robert Blunt also lived in Red Cross St, Southwark. Her family is mentioned in some detail in this thread. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=636191.0

One possible relative was Thomas Reynolds, also a broker in Southwark, whose will was proved on 28 Jul 1785. This will mentions his mother Esther still living and makes a bequest to William Smith, who may have been a relative by marriage of Mary and Robert Blunt.

Ann Reynolds probably married James Dale in Southwark on 1 February 1766. There are various other christening and marriage records for what might possibly have been Charles Reynolds and his children but none that seems very convincing.

The wills mentioned above and the identity of Mary Reynolds’ parents were discovered by my 4th cousin Douglas Woodall.

With thanks in advance for your help,


Alan Watson

Hi,

I'm looking for help finding the origins of John Allen who, as a widower upwards of 37 married Anne Waller (1713 - 1800) at St Katherine by the Tower on 17 April 1735.

They lived in Petticoat Lane, Spitalfields and had two children, John Allen (1742 - 1752) and Mary Allen (?-?).

He died in 1760; his will was proved on 30 September and he was buried in Bunhill Fields on 2 October.

His widow remarried, to Jonathan Wathen, at St Botolph, Bishopsgate on 8 June 1761.

The daughter,  Mary Allen, then a minor married Joshua Phipps on 18 Sept 1764 and was mother of five including my ancestor Mary Phipps who married a Mr Marlham and then a Thomas Blunt and the more  famous Jonathan Wathen Waller 1st Baronet. (See Wikipedia; Burke has a mistake in his parentage; there is a huge file Genealogies of Buckinghamshire Families, available on Familysearch, which has an extensive pedigree of the Wallers including almost all the people mentioned in this post.)

These families were all close to the Presbyterian movement; Anne Waller's brother James married into the same family, Gwynne, as John Wesley. They also had money, so their presence in the East End was probably to run a church or mission.

I have completely failed to find anything about John Allen's professional life, first wife, birth or ancestry (or his second wife's death, or his daughter Mary's birth or death) and would be very grateful for any help.

There are good topics on the Phipps and Blunt Families

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734230.new;topicseen#new
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=636191.63

Many thanks,

Alan

Hi,

I would be very grateful for any help in tracing the birth of my ancestor, Robert Blunt, who I think may have been born in Petersfield. I can see marriage and death records for Petersfield at the relevant time but not births.

What I know is that Robert Blunt, bachelor, married Mary Burbidge (nee Reynolds?) widow in St George the Martyr, Southwark on 28 Jan 1764. They had children William, Robert, Mary, Sarah and Thomas, christened at the same place, and Robert died in 1773. He was buried in St George the Martyr on November 7 and his will proved on November 11. His will and burial record state that he worked at the Bank of England. His will provided an income to support his widow and children and pay for the children's apprenticeships, and gave a legacy to a niece Mary Harffy. In the event of the death of his wife and children, residuary legatees were his brother Richard Blunt (a carpenter of Little Britain in the City of London) and a Mr Thomas Blunt of Petersfield.

Executors included the brother Richard, Mr William Harffy, surgeon of Chichester (father of the Mary mentioned above) and a Mr William Coleman of the Bank of England. Intriguingly, William Harrfy's wife Mary (nee Brett?) died in the same year. Her will left her assets to her daughter Mary (the niece mentioned above) or failing that to her brother-in-law Robert Blunt of Southwark. William Harrfy's will also mentioned a ring held in memory of Mr Robert Blunt and Robert Blunt's executor William Coleman married another member of the Harffy family. I think that William Harffy's father was Thomas Harffy an apothecary from Horsham, which might explain why two of the young Blunt orphans went on to be chemists. I haven't found the nature of the family link to the Harrfys, but what I am looking for here is the link to Thomas Blunt of Petersfield - perhaps a cousin - and the ancestry of Robert Blunt.

I can see other people's trees which show this Robert Blunt as the son of a Richard Blunt of Petersfield, himself the son of another Richard Blunt and Martha. I can see marriages in Petersfield of Richard Blunt and Martha Beale (6 April 1694) and Richard Blunt and Barbara Beet (25 Jun 1727) which might be right, but I can't see any births or other evidence to show that my Robert was their son, or that they had another son Richard.

Perhaps more promisingly, I can see the death of a William Blunt (Senior, Gent 18 Jan 1775) whose will I can also find (proved 8 Apr 1775, Canterbury Court). It makes bequests to his wife Frances (I think; if so she may have died 18 Feb 1787), his four sons, William, Thomas, Richard and Robert and his daughter Martha, wife of Thomas Clement. (I can see their marriage 11 Oct 1753.) After his wife's death, Robert was to get property in Petersfield (suggesting that he stayed there) and the other children were to get £200 in cash, judged to be the same value.

This might well have been my Robert Blunt and his brother Richard, except that the will is dated 29 March 1774 and still refers to Robert (who died in 1773) as if he was living. Also my will pointedly refers to Richard Blunt as Robert's brother, but just mentions Mr Thomas Blunt of Petersfield.

The Petersfield marriage records also have a Thomas Blunt, married Mary Matthews (1 June 1756) who might or might not have been the person referred to in my Robert's will and the son of William Senior above. The bond for the marriage of Margaret Blunt and Thomas Clement was put up by Thomas Blunt, mealsman of Petersfield, and the same Thomas Blunt mealsman had a son Thomas Blunt b 11 May 1768 c 21 Apr 1768 who became an articled clerk in Petersfied on 19 June 1784. (Mary seems to have died in 1810 aged 74 and Thomas the mealsman perhaps in 1792.)

The trees that I can see have William senior as the son of Richard Blunt and Martha (Beale?) and therefore my Robert's uncle. This might well be right, and would make the Thomas Blunt the mealsman who stayed in Petersfield my Robert's cousin, but I don't have any evidence for it.

As to the Harffy connection, this family seems to have come from Horsham and settled in Portsea and or Chichester, but a William Harffy probably the executor of the will, took on an apprentice surgeon in Petersfield in 1753. The death of an infant William Harffy is recorded in Petersfield in the same year and Mary Harffy (his wife?) witnessed the wedding of a Mr Bone to Hannah Albury of Petersfield in 1769.

I would be incredibly grateful for any help putting the Petersfield end of all this together.

Thanks in advance,


Alan Watson

PS My mother maintained that the Blunt family was distantly related to the Blunts of Petworth, but I don't have any evidence for that either.