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Topics - EBrand

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1
Perthshire / John Livingston?, Muthill, Perthshire
« on: Tuesday 19 September 23 08:16 BST (UK)  »
Hi everybody,

I am currently doing research into my Duncan side of the family, who are from Muthill, Perthshire.
In the 1851 Census they are residing in Muthill and living with them is a grandson, who I think is named John Livingston, aged 6. He is still living with them in 1861, aged 16. I have been unsuccessful in finding out what happened to him after this fact, and I am not too sure who his parents are.

1851 Household Transcript:
Andrew Duncan   78
Isabel Duncan   58
Andrew Duncan   26
Joseph Duncan   22
Alexander Duncan   18
John Leveingston   6

1861 Household Transcript:
Isabella Duncan   69
Andrew Duncan   36
Alexander Duncan   27
John Ferrington   16

I have attached both the 1851 and 1861 census so you can see for yourself.

Isabel Kay and Andrew Duncan had 6 children but I cannot find a marriage for the couple:
Andrew (1815-bef.1823)
Isabella (1818-1883) m. George Brand in 1840
Janet (1820-1908) m. Duncan Gow in 1846
Andrew (1823-1908) never married
Joseph (c.1828-1906) m. Ann Buchanan in 1852
Alexander (c.1833-1896) never married

I believe (but I do not have any connecting proof) that Andrew had a previous marriage with Ann Whyte in 1805 in Muthill, to which a daughter Agnes was born in 1811. I cannot find any other children for this marriage, and I cannot find what happened to Agnes following her birth. If Agnes is the daughter of Andrew Duncan (who later had a relationship with Isabel Kay) then she may be the mother of this John Livingston. However, I cannot find anything about either of them.

I appreciate any help, thank you!
EB

2
Yorkshire (West Riding) / The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« on: Thursday 31 August 23 14:14 BST (UK)  »
Hello everyone, this may be a long post. (EDIT: I have to post in two parts as it is too long!)
I have an ancestor - Hannah Andrew - who has caused me a lot of grief in trying to understand what was going on in her life. I thought maybe an outside perspective may help, because I just can't quite figure it out. Bear with me, it is a little bit long...
I have compiled here the facts of her life in chronological order, and finished off with some questions I need help answering.

Thank you in advance for reading.

Hannah ANDERSON was baptised on the 11 Mar 1810 to Henry ANDERSON and Harriet ANDERSON in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.
26 Feb 1832- Hannah ANDREW baptises her illegitimate son John ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire.
12 October 1834- Hannah ANDREW baptises her illegitimate son Henry ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire.
25 December 1836- Hannah ANDREW baptises her illegitimate son Joseph ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire.
6 September 1838- Hannah ANDREW gives birth to a son named Robinson ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire. She has registered her own father’s name and occupation (Henry Andrew – miner) as Robinson’s biological father. This does not make sense. There is no known baptism for Robinson ANDREW.

1 Month Later

29th of October 1838 – Hannah ANDERSON (labourer) marries Thomas FLEMING (twine spinner) in Rothwell, Yorkshire. Both of their residences are put as Lofthouse. Hannah already had 4 illegitimate children upon her marriage to Thomas. Hannah was also 6 years older than Thomas.
8th July 1839- Hannah ANDREW’s son Robinson ANDREW dies at 9 months old from measles in Carr Gate. The death was witnessed by Hannah’s mother, Harriet ANDREW. His burial date is put as 24th of June, which is inconsistent with the death certificate.
7th May 1840- Hannah FLEMING nee ANDREW gives birth to a daughter Elizabeth FLEMING in Carr Gate. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father. Elizabeth is not baptised.

1841 Census – Ann FLEMING is living in a house in Carr Gate where she works as a labourer. She is 33 years old. Her daughter Elizabeth FLEMING is 1, and her sons John ANDREW, Henry ANDREW and Joseph ANDREW are 9, 6 and 4 respectively.
Thomas FLEMING is not residing with them. He is residing at Lee Moor Gate with his parents Richard FLEMING (70) and Martha FLEMING (70). His sister Mary Ann is 40, sister Jane is 25, Thomas is 20 and a twine spinner, there is a 4-month-old Richard FLEMING.

Sep 1842- Hannah FLEMING nee ANDREW gives birth to a daughter named Emma FLEMING in Carr Gate. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father. Emma is not baptised.
13 November 1846- Hannah FLEMING gives birth to William FLEMING in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father.
January 17 1847- Hannah FLEMING baptises her son William FLEMING in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. She has no occupation and no father is listed. 
16 June 1850- Ann ANDERSON baptises her two daughters Emma and Elizabeth under her surname in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. No father is listed for either girls.
2 Aug 1850- Hannah FLEMING gives birth to a son named Amos FLEMING in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father.  There is no known baptism for Amos FLEMING.
Dec 1850- Hannah FLEMING buries her son Amos FLEMING (19 weeks old) in Carr Gate, Yorkshire.

1851 Census- Hannah FLEMING is 42 and a coal pit labourer in Carr Gate. She has put herself down as married. Her children are John ANDERSON (19, coal miner), Henry ANDERSON (16, coal miner), Joseph ANDERSON (14, coal miner harrier), Elizabeth ANDERSON (10), Emma FLEMING (7) and William FLEMING (3). Again, Thomas is not living with them. He is living with his widowed mother in Cockpithouses, Stanley. He is 34 and an agricultural labourer.

May 26 1856- John ANDERSON, Hannah’s eldest, marries Mary BASTON in Wakefield. His father’s name on the marriage cert is W---------, occupation not listed. They go on to have a son named Robinson, a daughter named Hannah and a daughter Elizabeth. Mary dies in 1867 and John remarries to Hannah COOPER in 1868. There is no father’s name listed on his second marriage certificate.
Sep 14 1856- Henry ANDERSON, Hannah’s second eldest, marries Mary ABSON in Wakefield. His father’s name on the marriage cert is David A-------- (crossed out), occupation not listed. Mary dies and Henry remarries to Mary Ann Chapman WINTER on 23 Mar 1863. There is no father’s name listed on his second marriage certificate. With his second wife he had a son named  Walter.
25 Dec 1857- Joseph ANDERSON, Hannah’s third eldest, marries Sarah SNOWDEN in Stanley. His father’s name and occupation is blank on his marriage certificate. With Sarah he had six children; Ezra, Walter, Frederick, Clara, Ruth, Martha. His wife Sarah died in 1867. Joseph remarried on March 31 1868 to Alice CHARLESWORTH. On this second marriage certificate, he puts his father’s name as William ANDERSON, miner.
March 1858- Elizabeth FLEMING, Hannah’s fifth child, dies aged 18 in Stanley Lane End. She is buried in Stanley on March 11.

3
Other Countries / Kelly Family in India
« on: Thursday 04 May 23 09:42 BST (UK)  »
Hi all,

We all know what family lore is like, right? Often things are exaggerated so much that really the truth is tiny in proportion. I've got a similar situation here.

My ancestor Thomas Kelly, from Dunlavin, Co. Wicklow, Ireland c.1819 joined the British Army under the 53rd Foot Regiment and was sent to India and modern day Pakistan, where he then joined the 10th Foot Regiment. He was in India from c.1840-1860, until he was medically discharged in Chatham, Kent and went back to Carlow and Dunlavin, Ireland. Eventually they moved to Western Australia, Australia in 1862 due to the health of their children.

At some point between 1839 and 1846, he married Catherine (maiden name unknown). We are not sure if the marriage took place in Ireland or India.

Here's the funny part. Thomas and Catherine (by family lore) are said to have had 16 children, of which only 3 survived. I have managed to find the baptisms of 5 of their children in India and Pakistan, but nowhere near 16.

What I have found so far:

Mary Ann Catherine KELLY- born   11 Aug 1846, baptised 16 Aug 1846 in Meerut, Bengal, India
Thomas Patrick KELLY- born 30 Aug 1848, baptised 16 Sep 1848 in Lahore Garrison, Lahore, Bengal, India (modern day Pakistan)
John KELLY- born 1 Oct 1850, baptised 1 Oct 1850 in Wuzeerabad Garrison, Wuzeerabad, Bengal, India
William Henry KELLY- born 23 Nov 1851, baptised 23 Nov 1851 in Wuzeerabad, Bengal, India
Bernard KELLY- born 9 Apr 1854, baptised 23 Apr 1854 in Lahore, Bengal, India (modern day Pakistan)

(These records are indexed on FindMyPast)

Usually I would think 16 is a bit of an exaggeration, however there were a few things that made me think otherwise.

Two of Thomas and Catherine's children, John and Thomas Patrick, died young. On their burial records (FindMyPast index) it has listed:
John Kelly, died and buried 1 Oct 1850. Occ: No.7 H.Ms 10' Regt. Ft.
Thomas Patrick Kelly, died Nov 1852. Buried 27 Nov 1852. Occ: Child 6 Co. H.M. 10' Ft.

Does this 'No.7' and 'Child 6' correspond to the amount of children born to the couple? I couldn't figure out what else it could mean. If it does, it means there are at least two more children I haven't yet discovered.

The second point is the Golden Wedding newspaper article of Bernard (Barney) Kelly and his wife, where it mentions Barney's father Thomas:
"When at last the military were disbanded Sergeant Kelly settled in the New Norcia district. There he reared eighteen children."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/253221192?searchTerm=barney%20kelly%20golden%20wedding

This article was written in 1932 when his son Barney was still alive, so surely Barney would have an inkling at the number of children his parents had? However, this news article states that Thomas and Catherine had their remaining 13 children after their arrival in Western Australia. Unfortunately I cannot find any registered births for the couple following their arrival in WA.

Honestly, I'm a bit perplexed at where to go from here and unsure whether to just leave it as a myth or continue on searching.

Thank you for taking the time to read  ;D
EB



4
Australia / William King W.A -BRICK WALL!
« on: Thursday 06 April 23 08:01 BST (UK)  »
Hello Everyone, hope you are all looking forward to a relaxing long weekend!

I have an ancestor who is great at being elusive, and his common name doesn't seem to do me any favours.
His name was William King, and I am trying to figure out how and when he got to Australia, and where from.

The earliest we see him is the marriage record between himself and Hannah Rhodes on the 24 Apr 1862 at the Sub Registrar's Office in Geraldton, Western Australia.
He was described as being a Yeoman residing in Greenough, a bachelor and over the age of 21 years. His father was reported as being John King, a dairyman.

He had four children with Hannah;
Sarah Jane - 1863
William John - 1866
Thomas -1868
Selina - c.1870 (after her father's death, I don't believe her birth was registered)

Unfortunately he died young, at the age of 39 according to his death certificate, so there is barely anything in Trove regarding him. He died on the 16th of September 1869 at Back Flats, Greenough. His occupation was farmer and cause of death was inflammation of the lungs.

As you can see, I'm working with very limited information but I am really eager to trace him back to his homeland.

I would be very grateful if someone could point me in the direction of the best way to solve this brick wall, or even give me a little bit of assistance. I feel like I've exhausted all options, but I also know that sometimes a different perspective is needed to make that breakthrough.

Thank you,
Emmerson.  ;D

5
Scotland / Finding a trial after a precognition
« on: Monday 01 March 21 12:34 GMT (UK)  »
Hi there,

I'm trying to break a brick wall in my paternal line (have been for years) and could possibly have a lead with a carter from Culross, Scotland named David Brand. He could possibly be a father for my convict ancestor George Brand, but so far there is no conclusive evidence.

Aside from that, there is a precognition for a David Brand in 1819 alongside an Alexander Spittal, for housebreaking in the vicinity of Alloa. A copy of this http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/details.aspx?reference=AD14%2f19%2f256&st=1&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=david+brand&ko=a&r=&ro=s&df=&dt=&di=y was ordered by my Uncle and forwarded to me.  We were notified by a genealogist at Scottish Indexes that it was a Justice of the Peace petition that had been misfiled and was not a High Court record.

I have no idea whether this was a case that went to trial and cannot find any other record of this particular case. The precognition itself did not give off too much information except for details of the crime.

Would like to know if there is somewhere else I could search to find more information about this case, whether it had proceeded to trial or whether simply nothing came of it. I was hoping it'd lead to a breakthrough in my brick wall case but it hasn't so far., which has been a bit disappointing.

Thanks in advance for your advice,
EB.

6
Durham / What is a 'Halfway House'?
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 23:40 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all,

I have found an illegitimate baptism for my 3rd great grandmother Sarah Alice Hope in Houghton le Spring, Durham. This was Oct 8th 1837. I'm still waiting on birth cert to arrive from GRO to clear up parents names as on the GRO index her birth is listed as being Sarah Alice Hope Jackson, with Jackson being the surname.

Aside from that, I was intrigued at the baptism record - Sarah Alice's mother was listed as Mary Ann Hope, and her abode listed at 'Halfway House'.

What is a 'Halfway House'? I did a quick google search and there were two possibilities, it being a place of rehab and reform, like the modern connotation, or it simply being an inn midway between two towns.

Which is it likely to be in Durham, 1837?

I would like to clear this up to add a little more context to my ancestor's life.

Thank you,
EB.


7
Yorkshire (North Riding) / Elizabeth Scandle, origins of housemaid
« on: Monday 08 February 21 23:43 GMT (UK)  »
Hi there,

In November 1866, in the Parish of Little Ouseburn, a house servant by the name of Elizabeth Scandle passes away from premature labour and loss of blood after she is taken from her master's house to the local workhouse to receive medical attention. This made the news as it put my ancestor, her master, James Dalton Gowland in the spotlight. He had apparently done wrong by sending her to a doctor instead of calling a doctor to the house, but the coroner's inquest concluded that he had no part in her death.

All that aside, I'm trying to find out a little more about Elizabeth, her life before her premature death. There is one newspaper article, the Yorkshire Gazette 17 Nov 1866 that tells of the circumstances to her death, but not to her previous life. I have ordered her death certificate but it has given me no extra information. I can't find her on Census records at all either.

Unsure where to go from here, or maybe I'm missing something with the Census search.
I would be grateful for your help!

Thanks,
EB.

8
Armed Forces / James Mennon/Mennons- death aboard HMS Hercule?
« on: Tuesday 27 October 20 00:01 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all,
 I have been looking for what happened to one of my direct ancestors- James Mennon/Mennons. He married Elizabeth Carter in 1780 in Alverstoke, Hampshire and had four children; John Stephenson, James Larona, Elizabeth and Henry James Mennons (1797). His daughter Elizabeth married later in life, in 1849 where her father James was listed as a Warrant Officer- RN. I believe RN would be Royal Navy?
Anyway, a number of Ancestry trees have his death listed as being on the 27th of July 1803, aboard HMS Hercule, West Indies, Atlantic Ocean. In the trees there is nothing to verify this information, but someone must know something to put that information in there.
I was wondering if there was any way I'd be able to see/access records for myself, if there would be any existing, and where I could look. I must say, I don't have experience with naval records, so all help is very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
EB  :)

9
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Marmaduke Gowland- Mystery Man
« on: Friday 23 October 20 06:08 BST (UK)  »
Hi all,
I was wondering if I might get a little bit of help with a mysterious character- Mr Marmaduke Gowland.

So my 3rd great grandfather is James Dalton Gowland, born in c.1819 to Marmaduke Gowland and Elizabeth Dalton. James Dalton Gowland became tenant at Widdington Manor Farm, in Widdington, and his children lived there for 2 generations until my great grandfather made the move to West Australia.

I wanted to find out a bit about Marmaduke, but as far as I can see there is no index for his death. He was born to William Gowland and Ann Fawdington in 1796 in Appleton Whiske, York, and married to Elizabeth Dalton in York on the 1st of April 1817.

There are birth records for his children James Dalton, Elizabeth, William and John, and an 1822 County Directory for a Marm. Gowland (possibly him), a victualler at the Wynn's Arms in North Riding.

I'm a bit lost as I would have thought he would have had a death record, and I so far can't see him in any census records.

Thanks for your time!

EB

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