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Topics - ogilmr

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England / Charles Gre(e)nwald, ship's carpenter
« on: Wednesday 13 October 21 05:42 BST (UK)  »
I was hoping someone could help me track down a "problem" ancestor.
My 3rd great-grandfather, Charles Greenwood, was born Charles William Grenwald, 1862 in Adelaide, South Australia, to Charles Grenwald, ship's carpenter.
Charles had three known children in Adelaide, all to Dorothy Kindley:
  • Charles, b. 1862 Queenstown, d. 1950 Hobart, Tasmania
  • John Ernest, b. 1867 Alberton, d. 1934 Northfield, SA
  • Agnes 1871-1872

The problem however is the following: I have identified five children born to a Charles Greenwald, ship's carpenter in Shoreditch, to Emily Palmer.
  • Mary Matilda Greenwald, b. 1856
  • Ann Elizabeth Greanwald, b. 1858
  • Isabella Grenwald, b. 1859
  • William Frederick Greenwald, b. 1864
  • Johanna Greenwald, b. 1866
On some of the London births, Charles is called "Charles Gotthart Greenwald".

I find it rather unlikely that there were multiple Charles Greenwalds employed as ship's carpenters at the time, and the gaps between the births of the children could perhaps suggest that he was travelling back and forth between London and Adelaide. I have found only a handful of records potentially pertaining to Charles:
  • Findmypast: C Grunwald, b. 1837 Germany, Carpenter aboard the "Conference" 1875.
  • Ancestry: Charles Greenwald, aged 36, born "Lubec", ship last served "Tarpeian", joined ship 18 Jul 1877 as s/d+cook, deserted 31 Oct 1877 in Galveston

It appears that "Charles Greanold" was maried in Q3 1855 to Emily Palmer in Whitechapel.
Just found a parish record for the marriage, which records his father's name as Peter Greanold, house carpenter.

Does anyone have any leads for tracking down seamen? I have scoured Ancestry and FindMyPast, but turned up very little.

Cheers for now,
Oliver.

2
Australia / O'BRIEN Missing marriage certificate? (Melbourne)
« on: Wednesday 17 February 21 06:14 GMT (UK)  »
I am trying to find the marriage certificate for Patrick O'Brien and Margaret Farrell.
I have now got three of their children's birth certificates, on which the informant is Margaret. They all indicate their marriage in 1858, one of which stating specifically in September, in Melbourne.
I have searched the Vic BDM index countless times with * wildcards and haven't found anything.
Their death certificates also claim a marriage of roughly the same time.

I see no reason to suspect that they weren't actually married, as all the evidence points to them being a legitimate married couple, yet no marriage certificate appears to exist.

Their children were:
  • William O'Brien, 1860-1937 (birth not found, age est'd from other certs)
  • Mary O'Brien, 1861-1890
  • Margaret O'Brien, 1862-1863
  • James O'Brien, 1863-1933
  • Johanna "Annie" O'Brien, 1865-1890
  • Alice O'Brien, 1868-1960
  • Patrick John O'Brien, 1870-1942

This is of course very frustrating, as Patrick's parents are missing from his death certificate, and Margaret's only has her father (William).
Their children's birth certificates state that Patrick was born in Corofin, Co. Clare, c. 1831, and Margaret in Tipperary c. 1832.

Patrick's death certificate says he's older though, 93 in 1918 so c. 1825, though I suspect that was just a guess by the "authorised agent", who didn't know his parents' names.

3
Ayrshire / William GILMOUR, b. Irvine c. 1811
« on: Sunday 02 August 20 08:44 BST (UK)  »
I am trying to find out more about my gggg grandfather, William Gilmour.

His parents were listed at the time of his death as John Gilmour and Mary MacIntyre.

William Gilmour married Margaret Bicket (daughter of Hugh Bicket and Agnes Borland) on the 17th of Feb 1838 in Fenwick, her home town.

He came to Australia in 1853 aboard the Genghis Khan with his family as an assisted immigrant. He was a blacksmith and wheelwright.

The 1841 census lists his residence as West Side Main Street, Kilmaurs.

The 1851 census lists his residence as Campbell Street, Riccarton, and his birthplace as Irvine.

William and Margaret had the following children:
John Gilmour, c. 1838-1904, married Mary Daniel
Hugh Bicket Gilmour, 1840-1911, married Christina Milne
William Gilmour, 1842-1896, married Catherine Henderson McKay
Agnes Gilmour, 1845-1911, married James Lawrie
Mary Gilmour, c. 1849-1852? (listed on 1851 census but not Genghis Khan passenger list)
There may have also been an Alexander Gilmour born after arrival in Australia, but died young.

It appears that the children were named following a fairly common pattern at the time, ie 1st son after father's father (John), second son after mother's father (Hugh Bicket), third son after father (William), first daughter after mother's mother (Agnes), second daughter after father's mother (Mary), and so on.
I think the story is that there was a son called Alexander born in Australia, but he died young. I haven't found a record of this however, but I think I read or heard somewhere that he was recorded on his parents' death certificates. Margaret Bicket did not have a brother called Alexander as far as I can tell, so it's possible that William did.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

4
Other Countries / BARBADOS - William Henry Downer b. c1819-20
« on: Monday 13 July 20 11:50 BST (UK)  »
My gggg grandfather, William Henry Downer died in 1891 in Australia, but his death certificate states his place of birth as "Barbados, West Indies". He married Maria Matilda Penman in 1846 at St. Anne's Limehouse, London.
Only his father's name is known, as his wedding certificate mentions his father Henry as deceased.

He is known to have worked as a steward or cook on several passenger ships which travelled between Tasmania and the Australian mainland, with records of his arrival stating his place of origin variously as Barbados, "West Indies", British, or sometimes Tobago.

Searches online have so far been fruitless.

I understand that often people name their children after relatives, so his eight known children were as follows:
  • William Henry Downer, named after himself presumably
  • Maria Matilda Downer, named after his wife
  • Gabriel Downer, possibly named after wife's brother Gabriel Penman
  • Alfred Robert Downer
  • George William Downer
  • Lewis Downer
  • Frederick Downer
  • Lily Elizabeth Downer
The two eldest children, William and Maria, were born in Stepney, London, while the others were all born in Tasmania.

If anyone has any pointers or information, that would be greatly appreciated!

5
Australia / Charles William Greenwood, married Johanna "Annie" O'Brien
« on: Thursday 09 July 20 10:19 BST (UK)  »
I am currently trying to track down my ancestor Charles William Greenwood.
He was probably born c. 1860 in England, possibly Islington in December quarter as that's what I found on the FreeBMD site.

He married Johanna "Annie" O'Brien on the 24th of August, 1885 and had a son, Herbert "Charles" Fleming Greenwood, born 1886, died 1962 in Mildura.

I don't precisely know when or where Charles was born or died, as his wife died young (cause unknown) in 1890 and subsequently he seems to disappear off the face of the Earth.

I don't know his parents' names, but The Age 13th Dec 1890 mentions that a mother of C. Greenwood died on the 12th at South Australia, so perhaps he had more family in Australia than at first assumed.

A family tree provided by my grandparents says he may have died in Hobart, but no date is given. I have searched the Library of Tasmania website but haven't found anything yet.

Any info/help would be greatly appreciated!

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