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Topics - DudelsackHogg

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1
United States of America / John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« on: Thursday 12 August 21 18:46 BST (UK)  »
It has been suggested that I post on the American board in the hope that you guys will be able to help.

I am looking into my 3x Great grand-uncle John Hogg who was born in born in Linton Roxburghshire and baptised at Morebattle Free Church on 17 December 1848.

His parents were William Hogg and Mary Waldie.

There is an marriage entry 1884 -  and a John Hogg marries Susie Backman on the 8th September 1884 in Manhattan, New York

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24SH-SJG

Johnís parents are listed as Willam Hogg and Mary Waldie.
His birth place is Roxburghshire. The estimated birth year is out but it is an estimate. A pretty good match.

Susie Backman is listed as a widower and her parents are Oliver Abrams and Susie Syring. I think she was previously married to Albert Bachman - marriage date 29th June 1879.

There is a possibility that John Hogg left his wife (Jean Stewart) and young family and bigamously married Susie.

This John Hogg was a church missionary so travel may well have been part of his job. It seems likely John Hogg was involved with the John Knox Presbyterian Church in Newcastle. If this is the case, John would have left his family after 1882 when his third daughter was born or may have left when Jean Stewart was pregnant 1881.

Link to the previous thread:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=851864.0

Iíd love to find something else on John Hogg and Susie Backman. So far I have found nothing other than the marriage.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

2
Not really sure which board this belongs but Iíll post it here. It involves three countries, a possible name change and I donít really know where to look.

Iím quite good with the Scottish records and know my way around Scotlandís people but when it comes to international and English searches Iím lost. I find SP much more user friendly than searching the GRO but anyway. Lack of experience really.

Iím trying to figure out what happened to two of my 4th Great-Grandfatherís sons William and John. 

John was born in Linton Roxburghshire and baptised at Morebattle on 17 December 1848 and William was also born in Linton and baptised 28 July 1850 again at the Morebattle Free Church.

The parents are William Hogg (b 1809) and Mary Waldie (b 1810).

For now Iím focussing on John.

There is a John Hogg who marries a Jane Stewart Dunn and has a son William Waldie Hogg. Born 26th November 1878 Northumberland.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DTNQ-HB3Z

This John appears to be a Town Missionary in the 1881 census - if this is the right John. - 2 Rosedale Place. Parish Byker. County Northumberland.

This get confusing as this son Ďappearsí to change his name to William Waldie Davidson. Davidson is William Hogg (1809) motherís maiden name. Ancestry is full of trees that have copied this information. I donít trust them.  The ancestry trees mostly list "John (William) Hogg" as the father and have the birth year Abt. 1851. More confusion with the brackets.

GRO Death entry:

Name:
Age at Death (in years):  

DAVIDSON, WILLIAM  WALDIE  
45  
GRO Reference: 1924  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 249


I donít know if two people have been confused here or whether William Waldie did indeed change his last name. I guess I need to order the above death certificate from the GRO to see for myself if John Hogg is the father.

I have messaged a couple of the tree owners but so far have not received a reply.

To add to my confusion there is a John Hogg who marries a Susie Backman (Abrams) in Manhattan, New York. The estimated birth year is a little out but it does list his parents as William Hogg and Mary Waldie.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24SH-SJG

I donít find anything else on this couple, Iím somewhat lost when searching for American records.

Both of these Johnís are interesting candidates as my 3x Great grand-uncle, obviously Northumberland is a lot closer than New York to the rest of the family in Roxburgh, and Iíd love to find something that confirms a link to either.

The names John and William are incredibly common. Iíd love to try and find John Hoggís death certificate, the marriage certificate, or any obituary - my findmypast subscription has ended so donít have access to the newspapers section now. I may renew this soon.

If any one can help me clear up this muddle I would be most grateful.

Thanks in advance.

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Roxburgh Kirk Session entry - Hog/Waldie
« on: Wednesday 21 July 21 11:15 BST (UK)  »
Kirk Session

I am typing up some Kirk Session entries and would appreciate your help with this entry:

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/virtual-volumes/volume-images?volume=CH2/314/3&volume_info=Roxburgh%20kirk%20session&volume_short_desc=Minutes%20%281831-1842%29&record_id=1836&rex_uid=REX00331&placename=Roxburgh%20kirk%20session&image=5

Bottom right entry.

This is what I have so far:

Roxburgh Church 2 October 1831

The Kirk Session having met after Public Worship was constituted Sederunt Mr Hope Moderator and William Laidlaw and Duncan Kennedy Elders. Compeared William Hog and Mary Waldie both residing in this parish and being asked by the moderator if they had made an irregular marriage they acknowledged the same, and produced a certificate dated Coldstream B(?) 26 September 1831
In confirmation  thereto(?) which(?) was (?) to be Kirk(?) in R(?)  and after being admonished were dismissed.



The last sentence is giving me problems. Any help and corrections would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

4
West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) / Sergeant Alex Milne Postmaster of Torphichen
« on: Thursday 01 April 21 18:31 BST (UK)  »
I am looking for information on a Sergeant Alex Milne Postmaster of Torphichen.

I have very little information to go on other than his name and profession.

He appears in a newspaper article describing the funeral of my grandmotherís  brother who died in a motorcycle accident in Falkirk in 1934.

The article mentions Sgt Alex Milne as the uncle of Andrew Gardiner.

I donít see any Milneís in the tree so it makes me question if this is indeed related to my Grannyís brother.

Andrew's parents both died in 1927 when he was 11 years old and it says:

ďOur sympathy goes out fully to Sergeant Milne - his uncle, postmaster of Torphichen, with whom he stayed,  and who is greatly affected by the calamity.Ē

Any help in figuring out the connection would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

5
I am very interested in find out more about the parents of Mary Waldie b1810 - d1875
Her death certificate 1875 - lists her age at death as 63 years.

Her birth certificate (1810) just lists the father- Thomas. I think itís the right one but the dates are not quite right.

B. 20.12.1810 - D. 01.01.1875 = 64 years and 12 days. I had to work that out and the 63 years is not as far out as Iíd initially thought.

Her death certificate lists the father as Thomas Waldie (weaver) and the mother as Margaret Stevenson.
She married William Hogg around 1830.

I could not find a marriage certificate of Mary Waldie and William Hogg, nor a death certificate for her mother Margaret.

My problem:

According to Scottish naming conventions according to "The Scottish Onomastic Child-naming Pattern," by John Barrett Robb:

The first son was named for his father's father.
The second son was named for his mother's father.


And the daughters:

The first daughter was named for her mother's mother.
The second daughter was named for her father's mother.

In my tree this pattern is followed apart from the name of the first daughter:

First son - Andrew correct
Second son Thomas - correct
First daughter - Helen -incorrect
Second daughter - Elizabeth -correct.

The name Margaret does not appear in my tree elsewhere - but Helen does. Indeed, one of the other sons of William and Mary has a daughter named Helen Elizabeth - I assume after his grandmothers.

Iím left thinking the following -

Margaret was known as Helen.
There was some sort of family rift and Margaret was not named after.
The death certificate possibly has the wrong motherís name.
This naming convention was only partly followed and they simply preferred the name Helen.

My questions: which is most likely?
Did families use middle names at this time and the names were simply not recorded?

Here is William and Mary in the censuses.
Hogg, William and Mary Waldie 1841
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a155fbff4040b9d6e751d9b

Hogg, William and Mary Waldie 1851 Census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59046ef0e9379091b137c97b

And here is a possible link to her father:
Thomas and Helen Waldie - 1841
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a155fc0f4040b9d6e751f6b

To add to the confusion there is a Thomas Waldie who marries Helen Robson in 1785 - who I have seen ( I think wrongly) linked on Ancestry as the mother of Mary.

I think the oldest son, Andrew, appears on the 1851 census as Andrew Hog - Hardes Mill Place, Nenthorn,Berwickshire as an Agricultural Labourer working for Richard Waldie (head) wife Margaret and Andrew Waldie (brother). I think these Waldieís are possibly related to Mary Waldie - maybe her brothers but I have not yet found the link and it may just be coincidence.

It would be great to hear from anyone with Waldieís in their tree and if anyone can help me to put these pieces of the puzzle together.

Thanks.

6
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Mothers name - Hogg 1793
« on: Friday 19 March 21 14:15 GMT (UK)  »
Can anyone help with the mothers name here?

Old parish register 10/09/1793 Andrew Hogg, Death 789/40 82 Hawick

Andrew Hogg son to dec(deceased?) James and .... Hogg 58

It has me stumped.

Thanks

7
Roxburghshire / William Hogg - Roxburgh Street - 15 in 1898
« on: Thursday 22 October 20 09:52 BST (UK)  »
I have been searching newspaper articles for Hoggís and Hoggís in Roxburgh Street.
I find the articles really shed a light on life back then and make for quite interesting reading.

I came across this rather short and colourful article and I thought would post it for anyone also looking for Hogg connections.

Initially I thought it might be one of my relatives, this coincides with the time they move from Kelso to Portobello, but after a quick check I think the article is possibly referring to William Hogg b 02.12.1882 son of James Hogg and Christina Hogg (Mackenzie).

A misspent youth is perhaps a kind way to describe his behaviour.


Jedburgh Gazette
26.02.1898

ďWoman Terrified. - For some time past, in consequence of reports as to molestation women in Kelso have been terrified to be on certain of the country roads near the town after dark. The police have been keeping careful watch, and they have succeeded at last in laying hold of the guilty person. A youth named William Hogg, son of a labourer residing in Roxburgh Street, Kelso, was brought up at a Police Court last week, and pleaded guilty to two separate charges of misbehaviour. A fine of £3 was imposed, with the option of one monthís imprisonment. Hogg is only fifteen years of age and it is only recently that he was dealt with under the First Offenders Act in connection with the theft of a watch from a helplessly drunk man on a public road.Ē

Iím curious to know what happened to William after this. Hopefully he turned his life around. So if anyone has a connection Iíd be curious to hear more about him.

Happy searching.

8
Roxburghshire / Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Tuesday 20 October 20 14:04 BST (UK)  »
First post here. Great website with lots of links for me to follow up. So thank you.

I seem to be from the black sheep side of the Hogg family. On one side there is the Poets, Reverends, Majors etc and on my side the poachers, alcoholics and murder suspects. Well.

I have be using Ancestry, FindMyPast and Scotlandís People to piece together my tree but I have hit a wall. I am new to this and would appreciate your help.

I came across a couple of news articles about a murder trial and I was hoping it might lead to some more information regarding my family.


1851 Trial

Articles from the:

Kelso Chronicle 13 June 1851 -page 6 and 7
Edinburgh Evening Courant 10 June 1851


Trial of Thomas Hogg for Murder.
The High Court of Justiciary, Edinburgh

Thomas Hogg - Accused
Agnes Hogg (Laidlaw) - Victim

ďThomas Hogg was placed at the bar charged with the crime, in so far as (in terms of the indictment) on the 12th day of February 1851, in or near the house called the Boat-House, in the parish and county of Roxburgh, then occupied by him, he did wickedly and feloniously attack and assault the now deceased Agnes Laidlaw or Hogg, his wife, and did with his hands, or with some kind of ligature, violently compress the throat, or did press it against some piece of furniture, or other hard substance to the prosecutor unknown, and did thus strangle and suffocate the said Agnes Laidlaw or Hogg, in consequence whereof she soon thereafter died, and was thus murdered by the said Thomas Hogg.
The prisoner pleaded not guilty; and a Jury having been empanelled, the case went to trial.Ē

Three day drinking binge. Agnes fracture of the larynx, suggested strangulation. Accused admits to hitting his wife on occasion.

Found not guilty.

Key names that appear in the article. Witnesses who gave evidence:


Elizabeth Hogg or Yeoman - Also referred to Betty Yeoman (Hogg) and Betsy  - First cousin of the accused. Also lives adjoining the Boathouse - next door.
Betsy Legget - 12 years of age - niece of the prisoner - has lived in the house since she was 5
Grace Laidlaw - sister of the deceased. Servant at Spylaw.
John Hogg - joiner in Roxburgh - Am a relation of the accused.

I have pdfís of both articles if anyone wants me to send them. The Kelso Chronicle is a bit more balanced and the Edinburgh Evening Courant reads like Thomas got away with murder.



My possible connection to this story.


Andrew Hogg 29.10.1776 - (unverified - not found on Scotlands people)

Ancestry gives me the following information for Andrew Hogg:
Birth date: 29.10.1776
Baptism Date: 01.12.1776
Baptism place: Associate Congregation OR Free Church Jedburgh, Roxburgh
Father: Andrew Hogg
Mother: Elspeth Thomson
FHL Film number: 559522
Reference ID: 2:18NPW7M

I cannot find him on Scotlands people. How accurate is the Ancestry information? And how can I follow this up and verify the information given.

Married:

Elisabeth Davidson 30.07.1777 (birth date assumption based on only record on Scotlandís people)

They had 3 Children:

William Hogg b 20.06.1809 d 25.02.1890 (my direct descendant)
Elisabeth Hogg b 26.11.1810
Elspeth Hogg b 18.01.1813 d 29.04.1896



The 1841 Census
House Name: Boathouse

Janet Hogg 80 Birth year 1761 Roxburghshire Sp dealer
Thomas Hogg 36 Birth year 1805 Roxburghshire Labourer
Elizabeth Hogg 30 Birth year 1811 Roxburghshire F Servant
(No relationships listed)


Title Trial papers relating to Thomas Hogg
Name Thomas Hogg
Role Accused
Designation married
Age 49
Approx Birth Year 1802
Crime Murder
Crime Location the "Boathouse", Roxburgh
Trial Date 16 April 1851
Trial Location Jedburgh
Verdict Not called
NRS Reference JC26/1851/184
Notes
Case remitted to the High Court, Edinburgh (see JC26/1851/547).


I assume the Thomas in 1841 census is the same as the accused. I have not found a marriage Thomas Hogg/Agnes Laidlaw. I could buy a copy of the trial papers and minutes but it costs £45.00. Does anyone have experience purchasing such information? Is it likely to give family details - parents of the accused etc. I am quite tempted as I am already quite invested in the story.

I would like to find out. If the Elizabeth Hogg residing at the boathouse in 1841 is the daughter (born 1810) of Andrew Hogg and Elisabeth Davidson. I have looked for marriage records for Hogg / Yeoman but canít find anything.

Any additional information on Janet Hogg also residing at the boathouse in 1841 - possibly the grandmother of Thomas and likely to be the sister of Andrew Hogg. Also, any idea what Sp dealer is?

I also cannot find any further mention of Elizabeth Hogg (1810) - death certificate/marriage etc so any pointers would be great.

It may well not be connected at all. I am working on the assumption that the Elizabeths are the same.

And finally any additional information on Andrew Hogg - if the ancestry information is accurate and why it is not on Scotlandís People (user error)?

Iíll post updates of any progress.

Thanks for your help.

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