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Topics - phil57

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I have a copy of a Tithe Rent Apportionment and Corn-Rent Conversion map, which are causing me some confusion, and wondered if anyone can explain please?

The parishes concerned are Charlton Adam and Charlton Mackrell in Somerset. My understanding is that the apportionments and maps were produced as a result of the Tithe Commutation Act 1836. There is a typed legal preamble attached to the front of the apportionment for these two parishes, which appears to deal with inclosure awards and is signed and dated 1810. "See Corn Rent Conversion" has been handwritten at the top of each and every page of this document.

Then the apportionments follow, and list various lands and property allocated to individuals within the two parishes.

A further document is appended, which confirms the award of a rent-charge in lieu of tithes, and is dated 14th December 1850. It doesn't contain any details of individuals or properties.

Now, this is where I start getting confused: The description for the apportionments in the TNA catalogue states that until 1936, subsequent altered apportionments were added after the original apportionments, and this particular document is ascribed in their catalogue with a date of 3rd September 1920.

The associated map is described as a Corn-rent conversion map rather than a tithe map, and the catalogue explains that "a few of the maps in this series are in fact corn rent conversion maps, dating from between 1862 and 1936; they record conversion of existing corn rents generated by the enclosure process into tithe rentcharge". The map for these two parishes is dated 1921 in the TNA catalogue.

OK, I understand that. However, the apportionment document does not appear to have any alterations or appendages, other than that a number of handwitten letters against many of the entries - usually an "A" or occasionally a "B" or "N". Many of the "A"'s also have a tick against them.

There are "code-descriptions" provided for the apportionments, but none of these single letter amendments are in the list. The nearest is for the code "AA" meaning altered apportionment, but nothing that could remotely equate to a "B" or "N".

But a number of the individuals listed as proprietors of premises and lands shown in the apportionment document, had died prior to 1836, let alone 1850. Just two examples - Edmund Gapper, Vicar of Charlton Adam, died in 1809. Richard Ford, the Rector of Charlton Mackrell, died in 1817.

My main interest in the record relates to my Gx4 GF. He died in 1838. His eldest son had the same name, and died in 1840.

So on the face of it, the first date that applies to the document is 1810 (from the legal preamble). Yet even if I take that as the date from which the apportionment entries relate, Rev. Gapper, whose list of attributed lands and properties extends over three pages, was already dead.

So what date can I assume for the ownership of the lands and properties listed in the apportionment? I can infer that the list relating to my ancestor is referring to my Gx4GF and not his son, because I have other evidence that some of the lands attributed to him in the apportionment were sold by him to another party in 1824 and 1825.

There are no amendments in the document either indicating that he was no longer the proprietor of those lands, nor ascribing them to the subsequent purchaser.

So I'm confused as to the actual date the documents relate to, and hence would be accurate for. The indication that they relate to the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act doesn't tie in with the prior deaths of several individuals listed, nor with the actual ownership of certain parcels of land that had changed hands before that date. So where do the 1850 document and the TNA ascribed dates in 1920/21 come into it?




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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Iron Foundry in Manchester
« on: Friday 14 January 22 09:27 GMT (UK)  »
Can anyone help with the name and address of the Iron Foundry please? I've included the entry below it to help with the handwriting comparison.

Carron? Carson? Company Iron Foundry, 18 M???field? [Manchester]

[Manchester] Education Committe (sp.) Whitchurch Street, Central High School, [Manchester].

Thank you.

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Suffolk / Waveney Cottage, Oakley, Eye, Suffolk
« on: Sunday 09 January 22 12:50 GMT (UK)  »
A long shot, but nevertheless...

My GF, an orphan from the West Ham area, was a "foster child" of Henrietta Stannard at her home in Low Street, Oakley, Eye, Suffolk in 1911. He is shown at the address in the 1911 census together with Henrietta, her son Leslie Charles and another orphan boy, also from West Ham.

In December 1921 he married my GM in Eye and gave his address as Waveney Cottage, Oakley. One of the witnesses was Henrietta's son Leslie Charles.

I have been trying to establish whether Waveney Cottage was Henrietta's home, and hoped the 1921 census might reveal more information. It doesn't unfortunately. Henrietta and her son are still at "Lower, Oakley, Eye, Suffolk" with two foster children from Uxbridge. My GF isn't shown there, but that was expected as he was by that time in the Royal Navy, and at sea on the census date according to his service record.

Just wondering if there is anyone here who knows the area and the possible location of Waveney Cottage?

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The Common Room / Loss of the SS Wellesley 1893-4
« on: Wednesday 15 December 21 13:17 GMT (UK)  »
My GGF was a fireman on the Steam Carrier Wellesley, a fish carrier owned and operated by Messrs. Hewett & Co of Barking, sailing out of Gorleston after 1865. According to the website https://shortbluefleet.org.uk/ created by a descendant of the Hewett family, the vessel was lost at sea in 1893-4.

I have some evidence that my GGF was working on the vessel up to 1885, and that he was still employed by Hewetts and working aboard their vessels up to at least 1889 and probably until at least 1895, as he was still a sailor living in Barking at that time. Whether he was aboard the Wellesley when it was lost is something I would like to find out, and in any case I am interested in discovering more of the circumstances surrounding the loss.

Unfortunately the above website, whilst quite comprehensive and informative in many ways, has nothing on the subject other than that "the Wellesley was eventually lost at sea in 1893-4", and the contact email link on the site is malformed.

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas of where to look for further information? I have drawn a blank with web searches and the National Archives discovery search so far.

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Help with Latin translation of marriage bond
« on: Thursday 02 December 21 11:19 GMT (UK)  »
Can anyone help to translate the attached please? I have had a stab at it, with reference to a previous post concerning a similar document in a slightly different format, but would really appreciate any help.

What I believe I have so far:

"May all men know by these presents that we, ? horkey [Hockey] of Charlton Adam in the County of Somerset, weaver and ? [possibly Hillborne - a local name] of Charlton Adam ? weaver ?---?

are held and firmly bound ....

to his certain Attorney, Successors Executors, Administrators or Assigns; for this very payment we well and faithfully bind ourselves, and each one of us for himself for the whole and undivided sum, (and we bind) our heirs, executors & administrators firmly by these presents. Sealed with our seals.
Date ? ... in the year of our reign Charles the Second, King of England, Scotland, France & Ireland, Defender of the Faith, c. ? in the Year of our Lord 1681."

In summary, I think I have the general gist, but am particularly interested in deciphering the handwritten names, dates and amount etc.

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Help with Army discharge form please.
« on: Saturday 20 November 21 17:53 GMT (UK)  »
I think the writer should have been a doctor. Perhaps he was. Anyway, can anyone help with this image please?

Q1. Hepatitis (with ??)
Q2. 2ndly. No - has marks and hicks (I think?)
Q5. In and by the service
Q6. Has for some months ?? the contents of a ?? Always? through the Right Lung Much
      consolidation of the use of that lung. He will not be able to assist materially towards securing
      his livelihood - Dismiss not aggravated by ?? or intemporance?

The highlighting of the answer to Q6. is on the original image, not my addition.


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I need a new set of eyes or several, please. Can I have opinions on words and a phrase in the two attached images?

The first, my guess is "Joseph Merrywhether talor" (tailor) his occupation?

The second, "Eliz the Daughter of Robt and Elizth Moss Hufbn (husbandman?)

And the text to the right of the entry, below the year 1713: This has (had?) ???? have been forgot?


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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Cause of death?
« on: Sunday 22 August 21 18:21 BST (UK)  »
Can anyone decipher the text to the left of the deceased's name in this burial register please? There are similar entries alongside some, but not all, other entries which state the cause of death, i.e. "Small Pox" and "Accidentally Shot", but I can't work this one out. In case it helps, she was a 2 year old child.

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The Common Room / Duplicate marriage entries in GRO index
« on: Friday 20 August 21 20:24 BST (UK)  »
I have been looking at a marriage in the June quarter of 1856 in Spalding, Lincs, between William WINKLEY and Mary Ann MERRYWEATHERS. The marriage is indexed twice on FreeBMD, as 1856/Q2/Spalding/7A/511 and again as 1856/Q2/Spalding/7A/4230/S. The couple are named in the later index entry as William Winkley (Merryweathers) and Mary Ann Merryweathers (Winkley)

In the scans of the original handwritten register, the first entry appears in sequence with, and in the same handwriting as the other entries on the page. The second entry has been made subsequently at the bottom of the page and referenced to the original.

I have a copy of the original parish register entry, which shows the participants as William WINKLEY and Mary Ann MERRYWEATHERS, which both of them have similarly signed.

I understand that the second index entry is likely to be a correction. If I were to apply for certificates under each of the two index references, am I likely to receive differing copies or any other explanation of the reason for the two entries? I don't want to pay for certificates if I am likely to simply receive two additional copies of the register entry that I already have.

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