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Family History Beginners Board / Did William have a Methodist baptism?
« on: Friday 23 August 24 11:04 BST (UK)  »
Thank you, Rootschat experts, for vital past help! I’m now trying to check if a village child, with a distinctive name, had a Methodist baptism. His parents were John Thomas Lidget Thompson and Mary Ann Thompson. (N.B. For complex reasons, his mother’s maiden name may be given as BORRILL (or variants) or BLOW.) Willie Borrill Thompson’s birth was registered in 1886 (July-Sept) in Gainsborough District p.722 Vol 7A. Date of birth in 1939 Register for Willoughton, Lincs: 5 June 1886. He was named as William Borrill Thompson in a 1962 newspaper after he died in Willoughton. The Willoughton (church) Baptism Register is available for the 1880s via FindmyPast, but I can’t see this child. (1911 Census: the couple had 8 children, & sadly lost 3.) There are church baptisms for Sarah Ann (Bishop Norton, 1877) John, & James (Willoughton, 1880, 1895). My free sub to Family Search yields this possible ref. for Willie. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6XF4-VQVH The transcript details match (tho’ 2nd name is Burrill) but no village is given. Do you have access to an image of this record, please? If so, can you confirm that this is a Willoughton child – and is it a Methodist baptism? I’m very keen to know, as I’d like to write about the Primitive Methodists, a huge force in my Victorian village! Many thanks!






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Thank you very much for recent help about registrations of births etc! I would be most grateful if you would help me avoid a possible serious error in my non-fiction prose book, Village... & if you could throw expert light on one marriage certificate.

First query... From 1848 to 1875, Dr Robert Eminson, a doctor based in the Lincolnshire village of Scotter, was the Registrar who recorded deaths & births of inhabitants I’ve researched in my own village, 8 miles away. I had assumed that all villagers would have to travel to Scotter to register births etc. From notes on the National Archives website, I now wonder if – before a change in the law in the 1870s? – the Registrar himself in fact travelled from Scotter to other villages, & collected information?

If so, I wonder how the death of one child, George Blow (certified, from typhoid) was registered by Dr Eminson on the same day the child died in 1856? (The details appeared on a certificate I recently posted on Rootschat.) The child’s mother, Mary Ann Blow, was co-habiting with a farm labourer. She would have had to walk 8 miles, or perhaps hire a cart, to reach Scotter. It is not obvious to me how else she could inform Dr Eminson of the death.  Is it likely that the Registrar was visiting, as the child’s doctor, when the boy died? (The boy was buried next day, at his mother’s home village, several miles away.)

Secondly, I would be most grateful for your thoughts on the attached marriage certificate for Mary Ann Blow and Thomas Burrill. This took place, in Jan 1860, in the Register Office at Gainsborough, Lincs. Would a Register Office wedding then be unusual? And I wonder if an expert eye can decipher the note in the bottom right hand corner, next to a witness’s name, John Andrew. (Mary Ann had a fellow-villager called John Andrew.) I am not sure if the note refers to this witness, or what it says...

I should perhaps add that Mary Ann Blow had been a teenage servant of Thomas Burrill, hired to look after his sick wife. She had an illegitimate child (George) in 1853 & successfully sued Thomas for financial support. But she returned to his home (in my village) where his sick wife died, bizarrely (as reported in the press) in 1854.

Mary Ann and Thomas appear to have gone on living together. On 15 April 1859 she had a second illegitimate child, who she registered (with Dr Eminson!) as Mary Ann Borrell (one of many variants of Thomas’ name). The child was christened on June 19, 1859. And in Jan 1860, she and Thomas finally married. I would be most grateful for your thoughts on their choice of Gainsborough Register Office – and on whether this office was likely to be in the workhouse, which definitely existed in Gainsborough  at that date. Many thanks!





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I am writing a non-fiction book about my Lincolnshire village. Here are two images of the very sad death certificate of a child born 100 years before me. I'd be most grateful for your expert thoughts on 2 queries.

 First, do you think the image with the correction below, bought from Lincolnshire County Council, is an image of the original death certificate for little George Blow, with the exact 'marks' and signature made by witnesses to his death, and to the correction of his record?

I'm assuming the smaller image, bought from the General Register Office, comes from the quarterly return by the Registrar? It has the same information as the Lincs CC version, in the same columns, but has a handwritten number & extra underlining (and part of another record is visible above).

Secondly, do you think that corrections to death certificates were common? And do you have any thoughts on this one, please? As you'll see, the cause of death should have been 'Typhoid Fever - certified'. Presumably Mary Ann Blow, the (locally controversial!) mother of this illegitimate child, had a doctor's certificate - but I am unclear if she brought this when first registering her son's death on 20 Sept 1856 (the day he died). Dr Eminson of Scotter, Lincs, who had been Registrar for at least 8 yrs, did not enter typhoid on the 20 Sept certificate. He incorrectly wrote, under 'Cause of Death', 'Son of Mary Ann Blow', and copied this in his (?) quarterly return.

It is clear from the correction that the child's mother returned on Oct 12 , and must definitely have had written proof of the 'certified' typhoid by then. I think the witness who signed the correction was Mary Ann Blow's older and more prosperous neighbour, Mary Herrick. She signed her maiden name in similar handwriting when she married in 1826, although by 1856 she may have been unsure about the spelling of her married name! As Mary Ann, George's mother, twice signed with a 'mark', it is not clear if she could read well enough to spot errors on the Sept 20 certificate. It is also possible that she was overcome by grief during her Sept 20 visit, which may have led her or the Registrar to make mistakes.

I would be fascinated by your views on this very sad but intriguing document! Thank you again for your time.

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Thank you very much to RootsChat’s experts for previous help in researching my book, ‘Village’, based in Willoughton, Lincolnshire. I wonder if you can help me find records for an elusive Willoughton child?
On 12 September 1862, The Lincolnshire Chronicle included this in the section of births reserved for the wealthy: ‘On the 31st ult, at Willoughton, the wife of John Wm Richardson, of a daughter.’ Presumably the birth was on 31 August 1862?
John William Richardson was a large-scale farmer. There are records of a previous child born to him and his wife Harriet[t]. Their son, also John William Richardson, was registered in the national Civil Registration Birth Index in 1855. Willoughton Parish registers include his baptism on 21 July 1855. The Death Certificate shows that, sadly, the baby died the same day, of convulsions at 4 days old. His father registered the death a month later, bringing a doctor’s certificate.
But I can find no official record of the Richardsons’ 1862 daughter. I cannot find a national birth record (via Ancestry, Findmypast or FamilySearch) for a female Richardson July – Sept 1862 in the Gainsborough area (which includes Willoughton).
I cannot find Parish birth registers for Willoughton after the end of 1858. I have not found a possible death record. Her father John William Richardson died in 1869, her mother Harriet[t] died on 6 March 1873. Neither mentions a child in their Will. Willoughton Parish Burial Registers are available between January 1862 and March 1873. I can find no record of a child called Richardson.
I’d be most grateful for any records you can trace, or thoughts about this poor elusive child, please!


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Many thanks to Rootschat experts for invaluable past help with my Lincolnshire village research! Can you advise, please, on 2 death certificates linked to a very interesting villager, Mary Ann Blow?

First, her mother, Ann Blow, ‘Labourer’s’ wife, sadly died in 1844, at Kirton Lindsey, aged 34. The death info. was supplied by the coroner – presumably after an inquest. Cause of death: ‘Natural Death’. I realise we can’t pinpoint the exact cause of Ann’s death. But can we exclude any causes? Would an inquest be called if she died in childbirth? (I’m particularly interested in this.) Or after long illness? Are there other causes of death which would NOT lead to an inquest on Ann in 1844, please?

Secondly, in 1856, Mary Ann Blow registered the death of her son George, who had died that day, at Willoughton, aged 3½. As he was illegitimate, I believe the entry in the column for‘Occupation’ would normally be ‘Son of Mary Ann Blow’. But these words appear in the ‘Cause of Death’ column, with no cause given. (The ‘Occupation’ column is blank.) I believe that deaths in 1856 did not legally need to be medically ‘Certified’. Have you seen other 1850s certificates with no entry for cause of death? This Registrar, Robert Eminson, was a doctor. My guess is that Mary Ann gave him a satisfactory reason for George’s death – no inquest required – which Dr Eminson forgot to write down. But I would very much welcome your informed views! Many thanks.

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Family History Beginners Board / Did a young Welsh railwayman die?
« on: Sunday 28 May 23 11:41 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for your expert help with some tricky questions! I wonder if you can find the elusive death record of my great-great-grandfather, a Welsh(?) railwayman?
I attach the St Albans marriage record which ‘Rees Lewes’ signed , marrying Sophia Fensom  1837. And the birth record of their second child from Derby, 1839 - Rees’ occupation, ‘Plate Layer’. In the 1841 Census, Sophia, 25, and children had returned to Hertfordshire. No record of marital status, unfortunately. In the 1851 Hemel Hempstead Census, Sophia Lewis is ‘Wid’ – Widow? This may be true...I should add that the poor Lewises have been proved to be untruthful in some later Censuses and Parish Registers! I cannot find a death record clearly linked to my ‘Rees Lewes’ (I have tried all variants I could think of.. Rhys, Lewis etc). I’d be happy to pay the GRO for a death certificate for any likely candidate. A Rees Lewis in 1851 Census, Melbourn, Cambs, is Sophia’s age, Welsh railworker, supposedly unmarried – no definite link. A relative traced 2 sets of later records for similar names in Wales: one had a different marriage signature, one only a Mark... All help much appreciated!


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 I wonder, please, if anyone can kindly help me decipher a medical term on a publicly available Admission and Discharge Record from 1917 for a Lincolnshire soldier, Clifford Nicholson. (He is not a relative, but I am writing about him in a book, and wish to be accurate!) His record in blue from August 1917, is, I hope, attached. It comes from FindmyPast and is no clearer when originally viewed on my screen! Clifford’s entry has a medical term which appears to begin ‘B’ and end ‘iosis’. Can you read it, please? It may relate to a later record (in black) which I hope is attached. This November 1917 record refers to a knee injury. Clifford himself said in a newspaper interview in 1969 that, in 1917, he had been in England for machine gun training when he suffered a knee injury which lasted for months. Perhaps the illegible entry in blue is a medical term for the knee injury? Your expert help will be much appreciated!

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   Hello! I'm a published writer working on a book. RootsChat helped hugely in 2021- thank you! I wonder if your military experts might throw light on the story of my Great-Aunt Ada Ellen Powell- who apparently never married John Perkins, the 1890s Coldstream Guardsman who was the father of her first 3 children? 
   Ada Ellen Powell was born in 1873 at Hednesford,Staffs, daughter of Elizabeth & John Powell, a gamekeeper. John Perkins was born in 1869 at Wacton, nr Bredenbury, Herefordshire, son of a labourer. In the 1891 Census, John is a 'Single'  Private, 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards, Chelsea Barracks.
    Quick queries, please.. Was this a prestigious regiment? Would a Private who enlisted in 1890 have a choice of regiment? Or would he just be allocated to one? If so, did this depend on regiment numbers, or on the recruit’s ownl qualities? 
   I believe, in the 1890s, only a few soldiers per regiment were given permission by the Army to marry & have wives 'on the strength'? Was a Coldstream Guards Private, married without permission in the 1890s, likely to suffer penalties from the Army? 
    I’ve found no marriage record for Ada & John. On 2 April 1896, Ada registered the birth of her son Albert John Perkins, born on 18 Feb 1896. Father: John Perkins, 'Private Soldier in Coldstream Guards'. Her address: Bowmans Hill, Winslow, 3 miles from John's birthplace. She called herself 'Ada Ellen Perkins, formerly Powell'. Is this a standard description of a wife? This formula appeared on every certificate for her first 3 children.
   On 13 Oct 1898, Ada registered a daughter, Ada May, born 13 Sept, 1898.  Father 'John Perkins, Farm Labourer'. It seems John had left the Army. Ada’s father, often officially called 'Farm Labourer' was definitely a gamekeeper. It’s possible that John Perkins was, too. Ada's address was still Bowman's Hill.
      Sadly, little Ada May died on 27 April 1899. Her mother, Ada Ellen, registered her death on 2 May 1899. All the details she gave matched birth details, with a new address: Suckley Green, Worcs.
     I know that by the 1901 Census, Ada’s parents lived in Suckley Green. Family tradition said that John Powell was a 'Head Keeper' for the Earl of Dudley.  John Perkins may have been a junior Keeper to John Powell, living in a ‘tied’ cottage.
    Ada's mother, Elizabeth Powell, remembered as indulgently kind, registered Ada's 3rd child, William Henry. Elizabeth said she witnessed his birth at Suckley Green,11 March 1900. She called Ada: 'Ada Ellen Perkins, formerly Powell'. William was registered on 3 April 1900, son of 'John Perkins, Farm Labourer'. But John may have already been in South Africa- perhaps as a Reservist- in the Boer War? He died there on 29 May, 1900.
    A descendant of Ada has traced the Army death record: ‘J Perkins. Casualty Type: Died. Casualty Date: 29 May 1900. Casualty Place: Bloemfontein Rank: Private. Force: South Africa Field Force. Regiment: Coldstream Guards. Battalion: 1st Battalion. Number: 7972.' Local newspapers reported that John Perkins died of disease & that his name was placed on a memorial in Hereford Cathedral.
     Do you think that John Perkins may have been first deterred by Army rules from marrying Ada? And that, although they co-habited after he left the Army, they may never have found a chance to arrange a wedding & turn a fictional marriage into a legal one?
     On 31st March, Census Day 1901, Ada, still in Suckley Green, described herself as ‘Widow’, at 27, & gave 'Perkins' as surname for herself & sons. Her 24 year old 'Brother-in-Law' George lived with them, listed as 'Farm Labourer' But in later records he was definitely a gamekeeper. He may have taken his brother's job, & his tied house, keeping Ada in a home.
     On 28 Sept, 1901, Ada & George Perkins married at Wolverhampton Registry office. He was described as a 'Bachelor'. Both gave the same Wolverhampton address, 35 miles from Suckley Green. They may have been on their way to George's 1904 workplace, Wolverley, 40 miles away from Suckley Green. Elizabeth Powell, who could write, was a witness. She presumably knew that Ada described herself, at this wedding as 'Ada Ellen Powell, Spinster'.
   If this was true, Ada's first 3 children were illegitimate. If it was untrue, Ada would, I believe, have broken the law by marrying George It was illegal in 1901 for a woman to marry her late husband's brother. The law was not changed until 1921. 
   Briefly, Ada stayed married to George from 1901 until her death in 1952. They finally settled, for several decades, in a pleasant Buckinghamshire village - over 100 miles from Suckley Green! They had two daughters who lived to be adults.
    Family memory throws no light on Ada's life with John. Frank Powell, her brother (grandfather) was 17 years younger than Ada. He only told me 'My sister married Mr Perkins!' (George, who appears in our photograph collection. No one I know has a photograph of John.)   I must stress that I have every sympathy for Ada, especially for her losses.
    A relative, Ada's direct descendant, researched the family & discovered the parentage of her sons. He - & an elderly aunt - were amazed, having thought they descended from George.  We would both very much like to understand more of the lives of Ada Ellen Powell, Spinster, & John Perkins, Private, First Battalion, Coldstream Guards.
   Any help will be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much for your time!

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I have found an entry for a distant relative in the 1911 Census. (I believe I have identified her correctly because the birth village and the birth year in this entry match hers. There is only one birth listed under her name for her birth year in her very small English village, according to my search of parish records in findmypast.co.uk.)         

 In the 1911 Census, my relative is 'Single' and an 'Inmate' in an institution described as St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, Upton Park E.  I gather that this is a Church of England institution for unmarried mothers, so I assume that my relative was pregnant in 1911. I've also found out from later research that there were 3 premises in Howards Road, London, where unmarried mothers could give birth.

 My searches of birth records on Ancestry and Findmypast under her surname, and quoting her name as mother, have not produced any records which I am confident are for her child. Unfortunately, she has a very common surname and reasonably common first names.

 I would be very grateful, please, if anyone could suggest how I could trace birth details of my relative's child, (who would have been born in 1911 or 1912) and any other records of their life. I have a subscription to Ancestry and would be prepared to pay for a birth certificate etc. Thank you for your time!

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