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Topics - crb83

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / 1828 Irish Tithe Applotment Books Entry
« on: Saturday 07 November 20 18:04 GMT (UK)  »
I have been trying to figure out the exact name here in this entry in the Tithe Applotment Books in Ireland.
Place: Ballybroder, Durrow Parish, Co. Westmeath (but listed under King's Co.)
Time: 1828

Context: I have been investigating the possibility that my McLain ancestors in this area were an extreme anglicization of O'Laineaghain or O'Laineaghnain, an ecclesiastical family around Durrow abbey, associated with the Mageoghegans.  This surname had another extreme case of anglicization to Lynan and Lynam (an attempt to pass as Leinster English Linehams). There are two Lynam farms above this surname, which at first glance looks like "McLuire" but could very well be McLuine, McLeein(e), etc.  It looks like it was either written more hastily or by a different person, as the "L" character is a little different.

Link to the actual record:  You can manually go forward or backward in this parishes pages via the link (i.e. changing 307.pdf to 306 or 308 etc.)

Thank you for any insight!


Ireland / Commissioning Research for some very specific times/records/locations
« on: Thursday 15 October 20 00:01 BST (UK)  »
Good evening all, there's not much left to search in avenues of research for me except for a few specific record sets so i'm not exactly interested in the broad introductory research packages.  I am looking for a genealogist to search a few decades of parish records at the RCB library as well as Tholsell Court records (so it would work out for someone close to Dublin city since it's not all that much to search). If anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated!


Ireland / Gaelic gentry in the late medieval period
« on: Tuesday 22 September 20 21:03 BST (UK)  »
Lately I've been getting into the Tudor Fiants and compiling notes for my surname around Breifne and the midlands.  I'm wondering what really constituted a "gentleman", especially among surnames that were not part of a leading sept.  For instance in a fiant from 1570, a James M'Clyne of Rathinmore (Rahinmore, Co. Westmeath) is listed as a gentleman among the Mageoghegans.  I hate to assume things, but would it be fair to assume that he probably had a maternal connection to the Mageoghegans and became an heir to the land he was on?

"Pardon to Conly Mageoghegan of Donowre, gentleman and chief of his name; Brian Mageoghegan of the same, gentleman; Thomas O'Brynan of Adamstowne, gentleman; Johanna his wife; Thady and Mortagh O'Brynan his sons; James M'Clyne, gentleman, of Rathinmore; Phelim M'Geoghegan of Donowre, gentleman; Donogh M'Goghegan of Kennaghe, kern; and Ferrall m'Fiagh M'Goghegan of the same, kern."

Most likely there was probably some Maclean gallowglass presence around Moycashel barony much earlier when the Mageoghegan was much more powerful than in this period (likely 1350-1450). Although chieftains did billet their mercenaries on very good land, I dont think they would have given them title unless it was their descendants had some blood connection after some time. But thats just a theory of mine.

Rahinmore (An Raithin Mor: the great little ringfort) is a 172-acre townland in the parish of Newtown, Moycashel b., Co. Westmeath. In the 1655 Down Survey maps it appears that it's part of Cominstowne (526 acres) under Thos Geoghegan, who is later listed as people transported under the Cromwellian Resettlement Acts.

Good morning, Longford Forum. I have been researching my Macleans in Ireland for quite some time. Our YDNA shows we are native to the Breifne/midlands area. I had long attributed this surname there to a gallowglass family who were in Cavan over 500 years ago, but I may have stumbled across something else that leads me in another direction.

 Yesterday I was doing some searching and trying to find if estate rolls existed for an ancestor's 12 acre holding in Kildardon, Co. Longford (Forgney p., Shrule b.).  I was on because they list textual records of townlands with sources on how the spelling of the name has changed over time (maps, patent rolls etc).  I saw that Kildordan was mentioned in the Elizabethan Fiants in 1602.  So getting into the fiants, I find the occupier being pardoned, one Donnell Og O'Farrell.  But around him in the same list of pardons were several MacGiollaChlaoins.  (Donnell M'Gillecleyne of Castlerea, Tho. M'Gillakleyne, gent., of Mornin).   I knew the surname Cleen/Clyne/Cleyne was around this area but had no idea what it had anglicized from (Pender's Census: 6 "Cleene" families in Ardagh b.). actually lists "Cleene" as an anglicization of Maclean but due to me finding only Cleens in Ardagh, and 1 Maclean family around Edgeworthstown, I disregarded this, as it did not seem like a family cluster that was originally "Maclean".   It turns out that this "M'Gillecleyne" surname originated in Northeastern Roscommon near Lough Kilglass and anglicized there to "Kilcline" but in Longford it largely anglicized to Clyne/Cleene.  I found that in a Connaught dialect, the word Claon is pronounced "Clee-uhn".   

I did find another fiant quite some time ago of a James M'Lyne in McGeoghegan country in 1570 (southern westmeath).  Did I catch M'Gillecleyne mid-anglicization to something other than Clyne?
Did some of the M'Gillecleynes anglicize to M'Cleyne and then M'Clane?

I think in order for my theory to hold water, I need to find some Cleene/Clyne folks and see if we are paternally related.  If anyone here knows any in Longford (I believe there could also be Clynes from Scotland anglicized from something else, so I am specifically looking for a Longford paper trail), please send me a message, I would love to get in touch.

Chris McLain Beal

Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Symbol in 1820s Tithe Applotment books
« on: Tuesday 07 July 20 17:37 BST (UK)  »
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what this is. I'm leaning towards "& Co." but i'm not exactly sure what that would mean or why it would be on here. These are from Tully, Co. Cavan and Ardegullion, Co. Longford tithe applotments. As they were 5+ years apart, the Alexander in question may be the same person (Ardegullion is 20km from Tully)

Westmeath / Hearth Money Rolls for Mullingar
« on: Monday 06 July 20 15:18 BST (UK)  »
"Tracing your Irish Ancestors" has Mullingar's 1660s Hearth Money Rolls as published in the Journal for the Franciscan College in 1950.  I cannot find for the life of me where this is held, or if it has been published elsewhere. Has anyone been successful in finding this 17th century substitute for this large parish of Mullingar?


Cavan / Seeking McGoverns for Y-chromosome DNA Group
« on: Thursday 09 April 20 20:11 BST (UK)  »
Good afternoon/evening to County Cavan researchers.  I am the administrator of the McGovern YDNA group on FamilyTreeDNA   
I have been the admin for almost 2 years, and took over after a long period of time where there hadnt been much updating or testing, and only a handful of McGoverns are active members that have tested 67 markers or better on the Y-chromosome. I figured I would spread the word here in case any McGoverns were considering doing DNA research but did not know where to start or how to go about it.  The Y-chromosome tests track your direct paternal origins, unlike the ethnicity tests/autosomal DNA tests which are only reliable for 4-6 generations which most of these big companies are pushing.  FamilyTreeDNA has the best and most up to date testing (BigY700) for this. It would have to be a male McGovern in your family doing the test.  If anyone has any questions, would like to participate, you can reply or message me directly. 

Thank you!

Dublin / Smiths' Guild (Guild of St. Loy) of Dublin City; Commissioning Research
« on: Thursday 30 January 20 16:49 GMT (UK)  »
I had several ancestors who were painters & glaziers in Dublin city c1740-1840 and possibly earlier. I am trying to find out what records have survived, I would assume they are accessible in the Dublin City Archives Reading Room but cannot be sure. I would like to commission an area genealogist to research this family, if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.  Thank you!


Cavan / Macleans in Tullyhaw & Carnmaclean.
« on: Monday 19 August 19 14:04 BST (UK)  »
Hello everyone, I recently sent this email to Cavan Genealogy which is run by a McGovern, hoping to get some historical insight due to lack of paper records in Tullyhaw pre-1700, but their current email address at is bad.  Im not sure if the organization still exists or not.  I figured with the bright minds on this board, Ill throw this question your way!


Good afternoon,

  I run the McGovern DNA group on FamilyTreeDNA and although the timeframe I am researching is beyond the point of written genealogical records,  I am seeking some historical knowledge and perspective of northern Tullyhaw since there is really no references to the townlands surrounding Glangevlin until circa 1700.

   My paternal ancestors were McLains, and not until fairly recently with advances in Y-DNA, did I find out that more distantly, they were McGoverns.  The surname Maclean on my line, likely the result of non-paternal event between Gallowglass mercenaries in the area and the native inhabitants of Tullyhaw, as you know the complex way in which celtic kinship worked (also,  the Gallowglass recruited native farmboys/soldiers as their ranks dwindled from war, as it was cheaper and faster than the Chieftain to replenish ranks via the highlands).   I found records of the Ui Ruairc having Maclean gallowglass in his service in the late 15th century in the Ulster Annals, as two of them, Ruadhri and Alan, were noted as slain fighting for the Ui Ruairc against a sept of the MacRaghnaill in 1486.  Likely, the Ui Ruairc had billeted his mercenaries in the border areas of his territory. I found a large concentration of McCleans around Killeshandra circa 1600s and even got in touch with a descendant who still lives in Drumgoa, descended of Patrick McClean, who appears in the 1663 hearth rolls farming the same Drumlin, and sent him a DNA test. It turns out that his Y-chromosome markers are actually MacKiernan, native to Tullyhunco, which means a separate non-paternal event occured between Macleans and the MagTighernan. 

  Since I first started trying to sort out the mystery of how distantly my ancestors were MacGoverns (right now it seems probable to be somewhere in the mid-1500s, but that is based on the data I have to compare with), I have been trying to find information on the townland near Glangevlin named Carnmaclean.  My closest DNA matches are two 2 McGoverns from Glangevlin, and a Dolan from Altnasheen.  I realize that many of the townlands in northern Tullyhaw were not regularly occupied until after the plantation started, as people were dispossessed and went further into the mountains.  But would the townland Carnmaclean have already been named at this time? As I know townlands close by like Dunmakeever and Corneenflynn were the areas inhabited by Samhradhains ancestors.

 My question is probably more of a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" type, but Im wondering if its feasible that Carnmaclean was an area given by Ui Ruairc to his gallowglass, where they either recruited or became kin to some McGovern families. Or is it more likely that it received its name later on as a dispossessed Maclean from further east, like Killeshanda, was pushed off of the land that they had been farming for centuries?

  Thank you so much for your time, and I am looking forward to hear any insight that you may have.

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