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Topics - coombs

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The Lighter Side / Blanket search at marriage witnesses. London.
« on: Monday 28 June 21 12:54 BST (UK)  »
I am well pleased that London parish registers are available on Ancestry and other sites, but of course they are not searchable by marriage witness for 1754-onwards marriages. FreeREG has some London registers but they are often just from Phillimore's and only a few are searchable by marriage witness.

Now, I am going through the registers for Marylebone, Paddington, St James Piccadilly etc for any Sarah Coombs/Sarah Bradford witnesses to weddings.

My 4xgreat grandparents were George and Sarah Coombs. George Coombs wed Sarah about 1811, he died in 1831 aged 41, he was from Dorset originally, as I found through other research but have no idea about Sarah yet. After George died, Sarah Coombs, widow, had her banns read to widower James Bradford in July 1834 at St Marylebone, but no marriage has yet been found, but she took on his surname, she was alive in 1841 as Sarah Bradford, not born in county (Middlesex, London), and she died just weeks before the 1851 census, so no info on her origin. She witnessed the marriages of her eldest son Matthew G Coombs in 1835 and 1845. Matthew was her eldest child, baptised st St Botolph, Bishopsgate in 1813, the only time George and Sarah Coombs had a child baptised out of their parish of residence.

While doing a blanket search through Paddington marriages at the witnesses, I found Sarah Bradford and James Bradford witnessed the marriage of William Smith and Anne Jenkins on 10th August 1835, just a month after Matthew Coombs wed in the same church. So a possible lead. Could have just been family friends, or rellies of James Bradford but may have been rellies of Sarah, or one of them was, either the bride or groom.

This has encouraged me to look at the witnesses of marriages in the same area of Sarah Coombs/Bradford witnesses. Sometimes you have to look at things the old fashioned way, it can pay dividends.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / DNA and unexpected results stats?
« on: Friday 12 March 21 21:43 GMT (UK)  »
I know DNA testing for ancestry can throw up some surprises, but will it one day give a % out of 100% a "not parent expected" or "non paternal event" happened out of 100%.

Guy Etchells will give more detail on this, as he often discusses common DNA for ancestor tracing.

I know wartime's saw a boom in extra marital relationships, and it also depended on occupations of the husband, if he was a soldier/sailor, and of course many men strayed. And informal adoptions. I sometime wonder whether I should just concentrate on immediate ancestors or maternal lines?

I think 10% is too high a percentage, more like 2 to 5%. I know it is human behaviour but it can also be a touchy subject and can be hard to accept if there is such an occurrence on a certain line, chucking decades of research out of the window.

The Lighter Side / Bridal pregnancies?
« on: Friday 29 January 21 22:53 GMT (UK)  »
I, as I am sure many other do in FH, will find lots of instances of brides being pregnant at the time of marriage, some of them just pregnant, and others in advanced stages of pregnancy.

I was just discussing this on another thread about my several times great gran who married in May 1784, and gave birth to her first child on the 15th July 1784. Conception date about October 1783, and married at 7 months pregnant. She lived in Bethnal Green, her dad was a Bethnal Green weaver. The man she married in 1784 was also a Bethnal Green weaver 9 years her senior. The child born in July 1784 is my direct ancestor, who later became a cotton winder, and herself was 7 months pregnant when she married in 1806. Like mother, like daughter.  ;D

I know most instances the groom probably was the father, as in a shotgun wedding, but there was a percentage of pregnant women who found a man to marry who was not the blood father, so as to try and look respectable. Maybe she had a fling with a man or a trial marriage that did not work out. Or he took fright at fatherhood and did a moonlight flit and was never seen again by the woman who was expecting his baby.

The Lighter Side / Ancestry hints. Some are useful.
« on: Saturday 16 January 21 18:12 GMT (UK)  »
I know you must scrutinise any Ancestry hints, and you may know off the bat they are wrong due to different location, time frame and a different forename but some of the Ancestry hints have been useful and lead to new discoveries.

I found out my great gran was baptised for the 2nd time in Hackney, London, when she was in a Hackney convent in 1910 aged 14. The Ancestry hint came up and I thought "this looks familiar" so I checked the original and all the details matched. DOB, parents, names etc. Must have been rules of the house.

Another Ancestry hint told me another ancestor of the paternal side spent time in a Greenwich Naval hospital in 1899.

London and Middlesex / Oxfordshire born ancestor in a Hackney convent 1910.
« on: Monday 11 January 21 21:55 GMT (UK)  »
My great gran Helen/Ellen Edgington was born in 1895 in Oxford, Oxfordshire. Her mum Thirza died in 1902 when she was almost 7. Thirza had cancer. Helen was named after Thirza's mother probably as she was called Ellen. Helen was baptised 2nd October 1895 at St Peter Le Bailey, Oxford. Her father James never remarried after Thirza died.

I found out the other day that Helen Edgington was baptised a 2nd time in March 1910 at St John Vartry Road, Stamford Hill. Address 121 Stamford Hill, daughter of James and Thersa, and her DOB is listed which is correct plus her father's occupation. Must have been the rules of the convent. Some other young teenage girls were also baptised the same day, of 121 Stamford Hill.

I did some research and found 121 Stamford Hill, North Hackney, London was a convent and it had some inmates there training to be domestic servants, according to the 1911 census.

By the 1911 census, Helen had left the convent and was a servant in Bexhill On Sea, Sussex.

You never know what you may find.

Lincolnshire / Sleford/Sliford family, Wilsthorpe area.
« on: Sunday 01 November 20 22:21 GMT (UK)  »

Anyone else come across any Slyford/Sleford ancestors in Lincolnshire. I descend from a Richard Slyford born c1520-died c1580-1590 in Bothaw, London (St Mary Bothaw parish). He was a haberdasher.

Richard's brother William Sleford left a will in 1563 and he mentions his brothers John, Richard, Thomas and Rowland Sleford, plus "cosen Sparkes, widow" and his old master Lancelot Stringer. Richard Sleford Snr had a son Richard born c1540-died 1593, who in his will mentions children, and brother Rowland Slyford, also mentions lands in Lincolnshire, Rutland, Norfolk and Kent. I descend from Margret Sleford born c1555 who wed Peter Scales, then Peter Cartwright. In her will she mentions her sister Susan Mordant, who wed Henry Mordant in 1570 at St Dunstan Stepney. Margaret also mentions lands in Lincolnshire.

In the 1562 Lincolnshire Visitation, a Sleford family is listed, and they may possibly be my ancestors. A Richard Sleford wed Margaret daughter of Thomas Williams of Stamford. They had children Thomas, Richard and Robert as listed in the visitation. Not sure if the Thomas Williams is the same one who was still alive in 1527 in Stamford, and died by about 1545.

A Thomas Sleford Esq, sold land to Sir Robert Carr in 1566. It said Thomas Sleford, kt (knight).

Also in 1602, Edmund Sleford, son of the late Thomas Sleford, Esq, sued his cousins Henry and Helen Sleford, children of Richard Sleford, younger brother of Thomas Sleford (also Rowland Sleford was mentioned) over possession of the manor of Wilsthorpe and other lands Thomas had in Obthorpe, Thurlby, Greatford and Baston, Lincolnshire.

Apart from the 1566 ref to sales of land to Robert Carr, and the 1602 ref, I cannot seem to find any other info on Thomas Sleford esquire.

The Lighter Side / Settlement certs/examinations general chat.
« on: Friday 18 September 20 13:08 BST (UK)  »
A general discussion about settlement records and how they can be worth their weight in gold. The survival rate is patchy as we know but the surviving ones can be great.

They were only really for paupers or people who may be likely to receive relief in the future. It is a myth that everyone who moved to a new parish needed a settlement cert. Also peoples places of legal settlement could change over time, it doesn't mean they were born there, as there were other qualifications for settlement such as renting a property worth 10 or more, or having been hired as an apprentice to someone legally settled, of have lived in the parish for 40 days without complaint.

My ancestor was subject to a settlement examination in a parish and it said that he was bound apprentice to a shoemaker in a previous parish for 7 years but they agreed to part after 4 years when he turned 21. It must have been a pauper apprenticeship as it is not listed in the register of duties paid on Ancestry and FindMyPast. A subsequent settlement cert said he was legally settled in the parish he served an apprenticeship with. He was not born there.

He stayed in the parish he was subject to a settlement examination but I think the previous parish said they would take him back if he ever needed poor relief. He remained a shoemaker and stayed in the parish until he died in the early 1800s.

The Lighter Side / Am i being too thorough?
« on: Wednesday 09 September 20 22:04 BST (UK)  »
This may belong in the Essex group but this is more a general question about being thorough as opposed to a request for help.

My ancestor was John Newman who wed Mary Daniels in Rochford, Essex in September 1780, he was a bachelor, witnesses John Topsfield and John Wade (parish clerk), both left their mark. I am 99.8% sure he is the same John Newman baptised in early February 1760 in Belchamp St Paul, in north Essex, son of Samuel and Hannah Newman. John of Rochford named his eldest daughter Hannah and he later had a son called Samuel Newman who died in 1796 as a infant. John's father Samuel was from Clare, Suffolk and flitted between Clare and Belchamp St Paul. His wife Hannah died in 1763 and he remarried. His other children seemed to remain in Clare, Suffolk except John.

John Newman of Rochford died in 1811, no age given at burial, and no will left, but he was subject to a settlement examination in April 1782, where he said when he was about 17 he was apprenticed to Joseph Turner of Southminster, Essex, a shoemaker, for 7 years and they agreed to part after 4 years (so must have been when John turned 21), and that he is now married to Mary and they have no children as yet. A settlement cert for John was issued from Southminster to Rochford in May 1782. John and Mary's first child was born later that year. No record of the apprenticeship to Joseph Turner seems to survive in the list of indentures so I assume it was a pauper one but he was 17 when apprenticed, and I read the maximum age was 14 for pauper apprentices.

Joseph Turner was the stepson of William Newman who wed Joseph's mother Elizabeth in 1768, she was a victualler. This means Joseph took on his step cousin as an apprentice as it seems John Newman was William Newman's nephew. William Newman was from Clare, Suffolk, originally and had 2 children, a daughter Sarah in 1753 and a son William in 1755. No other baptisms of children for him can be found in either Clare or Southminster. In Nov 1757 William moved from Clare to Southminster as his brother Thomas indemnified Clare from expenses for William's settlement in Southminster. By 1768 William was a husbandman when he wed Eliz Turner.

Thomas Newman of Burnham On Crouch, Essex, just a few miles north of Rochford, left a will in February 1783, it was proved 5 years later in January 1788. In his will he mentions various relatives including his brother William Newman of Southminster, and several nephews but it seems he did not mention every single nephew according to further research. He does mention "My nephew John Newman of Rochford, son of my brother Samuel of Clare, Suffolk" leaving him 20. Also he mentions "My nephew William Newman of Rochford, son of my brother William Newman of Southminster".

I may be being over cautious here but I have scoured Rochford rate books, settlement certs/examinations, baptism, marriage and burial records 1775-1811 on Family Search for Rochford Essex, and there appears to be no other John Newman living in Rochford at the same time as my John Newman.

The Lighter Side / Ethics or genetics?
« on: Monday 31 August 20 22:51 BST (UK)  »
I did start a thread a few years ago about infidelity in our ancestors days, and how there is a 2% chance of a non paternal event in your tree, and several replies were that women were more conservative back then and I agree, also they did not drive like we do and they were busy bringing children up a lot, and everyone knew everyone's business.

But if you were to find a non paternal event in your tree, would you dismiss that male as an ancestor, or would you still see them as an ancestor, seeing as they bought your subsequent ancestor up, gave them their surname, and shaped them and subsequent descendants. I think most of us, including me would go for the latter. Someone once said to me in a discussion years ago "If they bought them up and nurtured them, and disciplined them when need be, does it matter if they were the blood father?".

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