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Topics - Ayashi

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The Common Room / The Plymouth Brethren
« on: Monday 05 June 23 22:20 BST (UK)  »
Hello all.

A new rumour has suddenly started in my family and none of us have heard of it before. Unfortunately my mother told everyone I could solve it!

An extended relative has alleged that my grandfather and his brothers were "brought up by the Plymouth Brethren". This isn't something I've heard of before and my grandfather's youngest brother has made some statements about family members for historical purposes that haven't mentioned it either.

My great grandfather and his wife married in 1917 in Plymouth, in a Wesleyan Methodist church. His own christening (and that of his siblings) took place in an Anglican church. His parents also married in a Methodist church (of unspecified subset).

I haven't found any christenings for their children, but it may fall under "too recent". They were almost certainly christened in some capacity. The family remained in the Plymouth area until somewhere between 1923 and 1928, when they moved to London. Both parents were alive and present throughout the childhoods of their sons.

My grandfather's army records from 1933 claim him as Church of England (although they also got details like his eye colour wrong so some army details can be taken with a pinch of salt).

With the first child being born in 1919 and the family moving within ten years, if they were brought up by the Brethren they perhaps weren't brought up very far! Unless there was a branch in London instead. From what I've read of their reputation, at least in modern times, they sound like a difficult religious sect to extract oneself from once involved.

I'm not sure what I can do in this case other than to try to prove they stayed consistently Methodist, although I think my grandfather did end up in a C of E church? He died before I was born so I'm fairly clueless there. His brothers also signed up for duty but I don't have their records (too recent again, I had to get my aunt to authorise me obtaining my grandfather's).

Anyone got any thoughts?


Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / An address in Coldstream, Scotland
« on: Thursday 10 February 22 20:51 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all

I've just found a new record relating to my 4th great grandfather. His address, which should have been in North Shields, is given as Coldstream. I know it's the right man, since this is a criminal record that is evidenced, and his father's family moved to Coldstream so I'm assuming it's a family address.

But... where is it?

Thanks in advance

Wiltshire / Henry SUMBLER 1771 Calne, Wiltshire - transcript but no christening?
« on: Friday 29 October 21 00:52 BST (UK)  »
Hi all

I've been looking at DNA matches and found a common surname- SUMBLER. In tracing back their line,  I've got to Henry SUMBLER and Jane WHATLEY, who married in 1766, Calne, Wiltshire. Known children include Betty 1767, John 1769, Thomas 1772, Jane 1774 and Stephen 1776.

I had hoped I could fit in my ancestor, Henry, but I'm doubting that the more I look at this. My Henry married in 1786 (first child 1785) so his preliminary dob was going to be late 1760s. A potential burial gives dob 1766.

The only christening I can see is Henry SUMBLER 1771 Calne, Wiltshire.

Here's the problem- the two transcripts (Anc, FindMyPast) do not have parents details but agree on the date being 18 Feb 1771. Anc has Wiltshire PR images but when I looked at 1771 the christening isn't there. In order to have transcripts, it must exist somewhere, right? Either on a different document, a different year or a different place  :-\

I checked it hoping for a child a few years old, but then found Betty and John as above, which made that seem very unlikely where this couple is concerned. Nevertheless, I suspect there's a link somewhere if I get back far enough. There are a few SUMBLER couples in Calne at this time and I'm hoping I can fit Henry 1771 in somewhere... if only I can find out who he is.

Can someone help me track down this elusive entry?

Thanks in advance


Edit- I may have answered my own question... sigh

The marriage of Henry SUMBLER to Mary COSTER was 18 Feb 1771, Calne. No wonder there were no parents on it, it was a marriage not a christening. Just goes to show how reliable transcripts can be  ::)

That does leave me without a christening for my Henry though. Back to the drawing board.  >:(

Cornwall / Finding Cory
« on: Tuesday 21 September 21 19:07 BST (UK)  »
Hi all

My 4th great grandparents William UGLOW and Jane KITTOW (married 1817, Warbstow) enjoyed naming their children after family members, including:
Edwin Cory UGLOW (1819, later 1838)
John Kittow UGLOW (after her father)
William Taylor UGLOW (after her grandfather)
Wymond Cory UGLOW (1831)

CORY was his mother's maiden name (Margaret dau of Richard). Here's the catch- I have no idea who the original Edwin CORY and Wymond CORY were. There's a tree online (unproven by me) that does not name them and even searching I don't get much for any Wymonds and nothing at all for any Edwins. Since Edwin was their firstborn son and a name reused later it seems to have been someone important?

I have found some reference to a Reverend Weymond CORY:

Weymond CORY
Born c.1747 (nothing found)
Document for 1774 Lesnewth [7 miles from Jacobstow]
Married 1781, St Stephens by Saltash [37 miles from Jacobstow]
Died 1820 Tywardweath [31 from Jacobstow]

However I can't match him up to my family.

At the end of the day this might just be one of those little mysteries that will bother the curious, but I wondered if any eagle eyes have better luck than me.


The Common Room / A quick bit of Latin naming...
« on: Friday 09 July 21 22:46 BST (UK)  »
I'm having fun with Latin at the moment  ::)

Walterus (Walter...) and Johannula had a number of children. I made the mistake of assuming Johannula was probably Johanna, but have since found out she's actually Jennett. Provided I have the right family, I know her brother's name, his wife's first name, her two sisters' names and who they married (can I find any of them? No... no I cannot)

The children are:
Johannes, Peterus, Thomas, Jacobus, David, Johanes, Hester, and Unknown.

I have been poking at this and found a burial for a Jonah. I had to then wonder- what would Jonah latinise to? Would it go to Johannes (or variations) or would it have a different one? It might mean that I actually have a John and a Jonah.

I have a few Jacobs dotted around the Welsh lines but I just realised that on this occasion it could well be James instead (that took me a while!) I'm assuming Jacob would also become Jacobus so could be either.

This lot are a nuisance no matter which language, frankly  ::)

Carmarthenshire / LLOYD in Carmarthenshire
« on: Saturday 03 April 21 21:09 BST (UK)  »
Hello everyone

I've got a little lead, but I'm recovering from a migraine right now so it is sending me more cross-eyed than usual. I'm hoping some experienced/eagle-eyed rootschatters might be able to help me follow it.

My (potential/probable?) ancestor Walter LEWIS (d. 1731) married "Johannula" LLOYD (d. 1708) (Latin records for the christenings... I assumed "Johanna"). I haven't found a marriage (first known child 1694, last 1708), all Meidrim, Carmarthenshire.

I was idly browsing records when I came across a probate index with Walter JONES, 1732. I thought it might be his- however, when someone kindly took a look for me, it turned out to be the probate for a Thomas LLOYD (will 1731, before my Walter's death, record for 1732) an alehouse keeper of Llanboidy, with mentions of his wife Jane, sister Mary wife of James DAVID, sister Katherine widow of Samuel DAVID and the children of "Jennett" wife of Walter LEWIS of Meidrim, Carmarthenshire.

I've been trying to find... literally anything. Christening records that far back will be hit and miss anyway, much less trying to find a Thomas, Mary, Katherine and some variation of Jennet with the same father.

Getting the will might prove Thomas as my "Johannula"'s brother if he names her children individually in it, but how might I go further back?

Any ideas or info welcome.
Ayashi :)

Armed Forces / Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« on: Saturday 20 February 21 16:15 GMT (UK)  »
Hello all.

I was approached the other day by a military historian who has bought some medals that appear to belong to my 2nd great grandfather. He wanted to share information / reunite the medals with the family.

The medals concerned are a Tubruk/Suakin medal and a Khedive star, both in good condition, along with a photograph supposedly of my 2nd great grandfather (!!). I knew we had some medals and although my mother has been obstructive to my enquiries I found an old photo that show that we have a Khedive star and a LSGC medal of his. He was entitled to the Tubruk medal but we don't appear to have it in our collection. The historian suggests that we probably have the original Khedive and the one he has is a later addition (he has shown me the photos of the ones he has, along with the name inscribed on the Tubruk medal).

As far as the photo goes, I have asked older members of the family if they believe he shares any family resemblance to his son/grandsons. While we all appear to be equally bad at determining this, I think I do see a marked similarity between the man in the photo and one of his grandsons. That said, one of my cousins has a partner with supposed military knowledge who has shed doubt on pretty much everything, from the time period to the geographical location of the uniform (I have excluded this for a reason).

The historian is happy to keep the medals (and no rush of course) but if I wish to buy them (and I do!!) he has asked that I pay what he originally paid, which is a significant amount. He has shown me the original listing to verify his quoted price.

Essentially this post in in two parts-
Firstly, I'd like advice on making an expensive transaction of this nature. They probably do belong to my great great grandfather and I feel they should be reunited with the rest of his belongings. I'm mildly annoyed that they got separated and sold in the first place and have no idea who did it. I also have no idea how much these medals are usually worth.

Secondly, despite a growing feeling that he's the right person, I'd like to address my cousin's concerns about the photograph. I haven't mentioned the time period or military details with a view to getting expertise on the photograph itself, posted with permission. I can elaborate on both the opinion and on what it is meant to be if desired.

Thanks in advance

Cornwall / Ennor/Enner buried in the church of St Agnes
« on: Sunday 01 November 20 23:11 GMT (UK)  »
Hello all.

I have found burial transcriptions for two potential ancestors, both noted to be buried in the church (St Agnes), them being:

James ENNOR bd 25 Sept 1726
John ENNER bd 29 Mar 1756

I was supposing that in order to be buried in the church one would have to be a) somehow connected to the church, b) someone of influence/respect or c) rich enough to buy your place in there, probably the latter.

I haven't found anything on FindAGrave to suggest a burial plaque, but doesn't mean there isn't one. I was wondering if anyone was familiar with the church of St Agnes or have access to anything that might shed any light on whether or not the ENNORs were a bit more well off than my average ancestor!

Thanks in advance

Devon / Western District United Service Lodge, East Stonehouse
« on: Saturday 11 April 20 14:05 BST (UK)  »
Hi all.

While doing a completely different search I found, to my surprise, that my great great grandfather Theophilus Jones was a Freemason from 1902 to his death in 1916.

Ancestry gave a link to a website "to find out more" but the website doesn't appear to exist any more. The Lodge still exists, but in the current situation the website is now unmanned so I can't ask them any questions.

Does anyone know anything more about this lodge? What benefits were there to being a Freemason?


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