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Messages - dukewm

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1
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: DOWNING family of Castle Dawson & Bellaghy, 18th century
« on: Friday 25 August 23 18:14 BST (UK)  »
In response to Romandog’s Reply # 48, there are indeed Downing descendants living in New Zealand and Australia today.  The late Tim Mansfield who started the Facebook group “Downing Family of Bellaghy & Maghera” had a cousin from NZ as I recall.  I can’t remember her name off the top of my head, and my computer is down at this time.  When I closed my Facebook account a few years ago, Tim’s sister was the only remaining Administrator, and she apparently is inactive in the group, so I haven’t been able to get back in.

Anyway, no, I haven’t got any information on the Scott tree, or any connections to the Downing branches that I’m aware of.  Sorry.

slainte,
Rick

2
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Tuesday 25 July 23 14:54 BST (UK)  »
In reply to Mike's Reply # 65, who wrote: [Secondly, regarding the 'natural' sons of John Downing. I have read before that in these kind of legal contexts the phrase 'natural' when used regarding children often means illegitimate (or at least, born out of wedlock, whether they are accepted by the father or not is another matter). It doesn't seem there's full consensus on this, as others argue it just means 'biological son' with no other implication.]

I agree, I think the most likely scenario was that John and Francis were the ELDER illegitimate sons of John, born before he married Hester, and Stafford was the legitimate heir born after their marriage.

3
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Tuesday 25 July 23 14:35 BST (UK)  »
Follow Up to my 4 part series (Reply Numbers 61-64)

You may have noticed in the 2nd part of the Will of John Downing of Dreenan, that;
1. one of the witnesses was Robert Forrester, who was also one of the "lives" inserted into "Stafford's Lease" upon the 6th renewal in Feb 1798.
2. the witness who signed for John's first codicil of 1794 was Samuel Downing.

John of Rowesgift was the son of Col. Adam Downing, who had a brother named Samuel (the elder), of Lemnaroy.
Samuel had two sons, Adam and John.
John had a son, Samuel, and two daughters, Mary and ELIZABETH, b. c.1742.  Elizabeth married James DOWNING (father unknown) in 1766.
This Elizabeth died before 12 Apr 1782 (date of an Indenture wherein she is described as "late wife deceased".
Ref: Deed Vol 345, img 37, Film# 8093709, p.59, Mem# 232063, dated 12 Apr 1782
That deed essentially transfers the rights to acreage in Lemnaroy, originally granted to Samuel the elder, his son Adam, and three others, by William Conolly in 1734, then held by James and his son John,
back to Elizabeth's brother, Samuel.  She and her father John being deceased, apparently James felt the land should be returned to it's original caretakers. 
That deed was witnessed by Dawson Downing of Rowesgift, son of John of Rowesgift.

3. Going back to the 2nd codicil of John's 1782 Will, dated 1 Feb 1797, you'll also notice that Dawson Downing, Samuel Downing, William Forrester (father of Robert?), and John Spotswood, are apparently appointed as appraisers to assess the valuation of the house and farm John currently occupied, upon his death.
Dawson and Samuel were 2nd cousins, both being great grandsons of Col. Adam's father, George Downing (d. before 18 Feb 1698 - date of the Will of Nicholas Downinge).
John Spotswood was a frequent witness to many Indentures to which John Downing of Rowesgift was a Principle.
It's obvious that these Downings interacted with each other on a regular basis and it seems to put John of Dreenan into the loop.

Knowing that John of Dreenan had a connection to Dawson and Samuel, it could be speculated that James, who married Elizabeth, granddaughter of Samuel the elder, was a son of Bernard, and one of John's four brothers.
We know George was the eldest, and I have ESTIMATED he was a young child at the time of his father's (presumed) 1734 lease.  The birth order of the other four sons and their known sister, Margaret, is not known, and could be over a significant time period.
It's not that much of a stretch to consider James was born in the late 1730s, or even a little later.  That would put him in his twenties when Elizabeth married in 1766, certainly plausible.

To speculate further, it's possible that James and Elizabeth's son, John, married sometime about 1795, give or take a few years, and had a daughter they named in honor of her mother, born in 1798; or
James and Elizabeth had another son, George, who married an 'Elizabeth', and they produced a family with forenames including John, Jane, William, Stafford, and perhaps Elizabeth, honoring several of James' brothers.
(Just to illustrate the multitude of potential branches upon which ELIZABETH SHARON DOWNING may be attached)

4
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Monday 24 July 23 16:50 BST (UK)  »
Part 4 in a 4-part series

Now we have established that John Downing of Dreenan, died after 1 Feb 1797 (date of 2nd Codicil), had brothers named George, James, Williaraaram, and Stafford, and a named sister, Margaret, who married a Mr. O'Neill (probably Neil O'Neill).
Although he mentioned a son, Stafford, first, he was awarded just 200 pounds, while his four brothers were to equally inherit the rights to John's "half" of Dreenan, and his "natural" sons, John and Francis, inherit the farm at Carrabrook.
To me, this implies Stafford may have been the son of his wife, Hester, by an earlier marriage, as adoption was basically non-existant.
I might also suggest that the four brothers named by John are the four principle Lessees in the 1798 renewal of "Stafford's Lease", because it's unlikely that there would be another family group matching all four given names in the same small area and time frame. 
HOWEVER, it's possible that those four given names were replicated in the next generation by one of those four brothers.

Let's say George, James, William, and Stafford, the four brothers mentioned in John's 1782 Will, were all born by about 1745.  Remember, George was almost certainly born by 1734.
They would all have been at least 53 years old at the 1798 renewal.  On the other hand, perhaps George (or any other brother) named his own four sons after his own brothers, and they were all born between, say 1760 to 1775.
That next generation would certainly have been old enough to act as principle Lessees and obviously younger farmers at the time.
But if we refer back to the renewals of "Stafford's Lease", we see that the 7th renewal, of 1 Jun 1800, names James, George, Stafford, John and Sarah, indicating that William had passed away, probably as an older man.
And he is replaced by a 'John' Downing and a 'Sarah' Downing.  We know from John's Will that his "beloved" wife was Hester, not Sarah.  But we also know John was still living in Feb 1797, so it's likely he joined his other brothers after William died.

I think it's very reasonable to attach all FIVE of these known Downing brothers to "Stafford's Lease.
My tree does not have wives for any of the five except John. 

As for your unattached Elizabeth Sharon Downing, b. 1798, daughter of George (and Elizabeth), let's speculate further.
You say there were children named:
1. John, bap 21 Oct 1789
2. Jane and John, bap 16 Apr 1791
3. William, bap. 2 Dec 1792, and
4. Stafford, bap. 6 Sep 1794
all baptized at St. Lurach's, Maghera.  St. Lurach's was Church of Ireland place of worship for folks from Dreenan, and Rev'd Alexander Clotworthy Downing was Rector there from 1785 to 1793, so he certainly would have performed the baptisms of all except Stafford.
Yes, it's probable that the eldest John died in infancy and when the twins came along in 1791, they named the boy John.
More noteworthy, the forenames John, William, and Stafford repeat three of the names of the sons of 'John' named in the 1782 Will.
Remembering that George, son of Bernard, was almost certainly alive by 1734, it's reasonable to speculate that he had married and named a son after himself, who could have married an 'Elizabeth', and been the parents of the children baptized in the 1790s, all grandchildren of George the elder.

HOWEVER, that doesn't necessarily place Eliabeth Sharon in that family group.  Nor is it certain that George the younger was the son of George the elder, but perhaps the son of one of the other brothers, John excluded.
It is possible that George the younger, father of the four surviving children baptized at St. Lurach's was one of the Principle Lessees in the 6th Renewal, but I think it's more likely that was George the elder, due to William's subsequent death.
On the other hand, using the same rationale that repetitive names in different family groups in the same small area at the same time, is unlikely.  I think it is highly likely that your Elizabeth Sharon may have been a younger sister to the aforemention siblings baptized at St. Lurach's.
So, to summarize my theory, I DO believe that your Elizabeth Sharon, b. 1798, was the granddaughter of George the elder, eldest son of Bernard of Ballyneas Downing, now Ballynease-Helton.
The fact that Elizabeth, and her husband Robert Henry, named four of their children John, Jane, William, and Stafford, is strong circumstantial evidence of a connection to the St. Lurach's children, her likely siblings.
That's just my take on it.  I would caution against publishing ANYTHING without corroborating verification.

Note: my eBook only covers Downing deeds up to 1825.  The Family Search resource mentioned earlier is a terrific source and probably has more information on deeds afterwards that may help.

Forward Into the Past,
Rick

5
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Monday 24 July 23 14:52 BST (UK)  »
Part 2 of the Will of John Downing of Dreenan (3rd part in a series)

"Seventhly I will and bequeath my dear mother to be paid half yearly in two equal payments during her natural life the sum of £10 yearly the same to be paid equally by each fourth part already 
bequeathed with full power for her or her order to distrain and drive for the same half yearly in case of non-payment thereof the first of said payments to become due on the 1st day of May
or 1st day of November after my decease.
Eighthly I will and bequeath to my sister Margaret Downing otherwise O’Neill six pounds sterling yearly and half year during her natural life with full power for her or her order to recover and   
she for the same in like manner as my said mother is hereby enpowered to … for the sum already bequeathed to her and after her death I leave and bequeath the sum of £100 sterling to the children
of my said sister to be paid equally among them at the discretion of my executor after one year after the death of my said sister  . . . "
Ninthly I will and bequeath to John Downing and Francis Downing my two natural sons and their lawful issue equally between them the aforesaid farm at Carrabrook situate in the lands of Dreenan
subject to the yearly rent of £5 sterling to be paid half yearly to the Right Honourable Thomas Conolly or his Agent in part of the … rent of the aforesaid lease of the half town of Dreenan and in case
one of them shall die without issue lawfully begotten said farm of land is to go to the survivor of them and his lawfully issue and in case both shall die without lawful issue said farm of land is to . . .
equally among my said brother and lawful issue I order the sum of £5 to the poor of the Parish of Maghera aforesaid to be paid out of my chattels by my Executors I order all my just debts
and funeral charges to be paid out of my chattels by my Executors and my Legacies also to be paid by my Executors all the residue and remainder of my goods chattels effects wearing apparel
I leave to my said sons John and Francis Downing share and share alike.
I do hereby nominate constitute and appoint William Forrester and Captain James Spotswood Exors of this my last Will and Testament and appoint Anthony Forrester and Mr Samuel Downing
overseers of said will . . .
. . . in case all my brothers shall die without lawful issue then in such case the freehold lands of Dreenan are to go to the above named William Forrester and his heirs."
Executors:  William Forrester, Capt. James Spotswood
Witnesses:  (unkn) Duff, James Alexander, Robert Forrester
In the first Codicil, dated 22 Nov 1794, John revoked and disannuled "that part of said will wherein it is mentioned that Francis Downing is to have an equal share in said farm of Carrobrack 
and I do hereby leave and bequeath the whole of said farm of Carrobrack for my said natural son John Downing issue lawfully begot and leave bequeath to my said natural son Francis Downing £0 1s 1d."
Witness:  Samuel Downing
In a second Codicil, dated 1 Feb 1797, John left "the two daughters of Neil O’Neill £20 my brother George’s daughter £10 my brother William’s daughter £10 and John Lyttle’s three children £21
and my natural son John Downing 20 guineas in addition to the whole of Carrobrack as formerly bequeathed to him.
Lastly I order the house and farm I now live in to be part of my brother James fourth of my freehold except Carrobrack and that my said brother James is to have his division £10 yearly less than 
Mr Dawson Downing Samuel Downing William Forrester John Spotswood shall value it at he never having got any lands from me since his marriage."
Witness:  William Carmichael, my servant

6
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Monday 24 July 23 14:50 BST (UK)  »
Next, the full transcript of; (in two parts)
The Will of John Downing of Dreenan, dated 26 Aug 1782, names in order:
wife, Hester
son, Stafford
brother, James
brother, George
brother, William
brother, Stafford
("in case any one or more of my said brothers should die without leaving lawful issue", indicates they were all probably unmarried in 1782) his/their 1/4th shall be divided share and share alike
mother, unnamed
sister, Margaret Downing, otherwise O'Neill
children of sister,Margaret, unnamed
"natural" son, John
"natural" son, Francis
to wit :
"to my beloved wife Hester one third of all the issues and profits now and hereafter arising out of my freehold lease of the half of Dreenan . . . "
. . . "and also the sum of £100 sterling to be paid by my Executor at a convenient time after the dispersal or auction of my goods and chattels out of the amount of which said hundred pounds is to be
paid likewise a bond for the sum of £200 sterling now in my hands payable to my son [?] Stafford Downing"
"Thirdly I will and bequeath to my brother James Downing and his heirs lawfully begot or to be begotten
one fourth part of my lands in lease of Dreenan aforesaid except the farm of Carrabrack said forth part subject to such annuities as shall be hereinafter mentioned and subject also to pay half yearly
a fourth part of my said wifes dower & likewise a fifth part to all fines of renewal that shall hereafter become due on said lease
Fourthly I leave and bequeath to my brother George Downing and his heirs lawfully begotten or to be begotten one other fourth part of my said lands of Dreenan aforesaid except said farm of 
Carrabrack subject to every article that my said brother James is hereby bound to perform on his part provided that my said brother George shall deliver to me or my order an Instrument in writing
given him by me at his marriage of the part now in his actual possession . . . "
"Fifthly I will and bequeath one other fourth part of my said lands at Dreenan except said farm of Carrabrook to my brother William Downing and his heirs lawfully to be begotten subject also to
every article clause and condition to which my said brother James is already herein bound to do and perform on his part
Sixthly I will and bequeath to my brother Stafford Downing and to his heirs lawfully begot or to be begotten one other fourth part of my said lands of Dreenan except said farm of Carrabrook
subject likewise to every article clause and condition that my said brother James is herein already bound to do so and perform on his part and in case any one or more of my said brothers
should die without leaving lawful issue I order that his or their fourth part or parts shall fall equally to my surviving brother or brothers share and share alike and to the heirs of such surviving
brother or brothers . . . "

7
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Monday 24 July 23 14:49 BST (UK)  »
In reference to Carson's (Romandog) quest, this is going to get a little complicated, so bear with me. 
It will take several "parts", of which this is Part 1.

From the eBook I cited in Reply # 60, we know that a certain George Downing was the "eldest son and heir at law of Bernard Downing of Ballynease".
I might speculate that this 'George' could be your ancestor.

(from) Transcripts of Memorials of Deeds, Conveyances and Wills, 1708-1929, accessible through Family Search
Ref.: Deed Vol 303, img 309, Film# 8093377, p.595, Mem# 202373, dated 17 Oct 1774
 
"A Memorial of Indented Deeds of Lease and Release bearing date respectively the 17th and 18th days of October 1774 and made between George Downing Gent. Eldest son and Heir at Law of Bernard Downing late of Ballynease in the County of Londonderry Gent. of the one part and Samuel Strean of Magherafelt in the County of Londonderry Gent. of the other part whereby the said George Downing in Consid(eratio)n of 300 pounds ster did Grant Bargain Sell Assign Convey and make over unto the said Saml. Strean all that the North division of Ballynease commonly called Ballyneas Downing Cont(ainin)g by Est. 48 acres and 3 roods Arable and pasture and 8 acres and 1 rood of Bogg plant(atio)n measure be the same more or less in as full ample and beneficial a manner as the same had been theretobefore in the poss(essio)n of the said Bernard Downing the father of the said George Downing and his undertenants and as the same was then in the occupation and enjoyment of the said George Downing and his undertenants with all houses Edifaces buildings Rights members and appurtenances thereunto belonging or in anywise appertaining Situate lying and being within the Manor or proportion of Vintners in the County of Londonderry aforesaid to have and to hold all and singular the said Lands and prem(is)es with their appurtenances tog(ethe)r with the Original Lease of the said prem(is)es under which the said George Downing derived his title thereto made by the Right Hon(oura)ble William Conolly Esquire deceased unto unto the said Bernard Downing unto the said Saml. Strean his heirs and assigns from the (blank) day of (blank) for and during the natural life and lives of the said George Downing and Bernard Mulholland eldest son of Bernard Mulholland of Moyagull in the County of Londonderry aforesaid and the survivor of them and for and during the natural life and lives of such other person and person as sho(ul)d from time to time forever thereafter be nominated appointed added or inserted in or to the term granted in and by the said Indenture of Lease pursuant to the Covenants therein Comprized for renewalls forever Subject to the yearly rent of 6 pounds 18 shillings with 6 pence in the pound receivers fees and the sum of 3 pounds 9 shillings upon the fall of each life and to the performance of the several Coven(an)ts in and by the said Deed (   ?   ) and on the Lessees part to be done and performed and Subj(ec)t or liable to no other charge or Incumbrance whatsoever in which said Deeds there are other Covenants and Clauses and the same tog(ethe)r with this Memorial are witnessed by Charles Hill of Bellaghy in the County of Londonderry Gent. and Andrew Torrens of the City of Dublin Gent. –
George Downing (seal) Signed Sealed and Executed in the presense of us - Charles Hill - Andrew Torrens - The above named Andrew Torrens maketh oath and sayth he is a Subs(cribin)g witness to the Deeds of which the above writing is a Meml. and sayth he saw the same duly Executed by the above named George Downing and sayth he also saw the above named George Downing Execute the above memorial and that the name Andw. Torrens Subs(cribe)d as a witness to the said Deeds and Memorial is Dep(onen)ts proper name and handwriting and that he deliv(ere)d same to Mr. John McCabe Deputy Reg(iste)r at the Regrs. office in the lower Castleyard Dublin the 19th day of Novem(be)r 1774 at or near the hour of 11 o'Clock in the forenoon of said day - Andrew Torrens - sworn the 19th day of November 1774 - Jno McCabe Dep Regr."
Registered: 19th Nov 1774

It is virtually certain that George was alive when William Conolly of Dublin, Agent for the Vintner's Proportion, generated hundreds of leases in County Derry in 1734, his only prolific period. 
George, and the other named "life", Bernard Mulholland, eldest son of Bernard Mulholland of Moyagull, were likely young boys at the time.

The original Townland of Ballynease has apparently been subdivided at some time, probably after the 1831 Census, into three separate Townlands.  Ballynease-Helton is the northernmost of the three, and lies just S and upstream of the Town of Portglenone with a small border on the River Bann.  Ballynease-Macpeake borders the River Bann to the south of Ballynease-Helton and Ballynease-Strain borders the west side of Ballynease-Macpeake, also lying south of Ballynease-Helton. 
The "North division of Ballynease commonly called Ballyneas Downing" in this Deed is probably now the Townland of Ballynease-Helton in the Civil Parish of Ballyscullion, containing 385 acres.   

8
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Monday 24 July 23 00:24 BST (UK)  »
Hi Carson,

The title is “DOWNING DEEDS of DERRY, 1708-1825”
available on Amazon for $0.99

I wanted to offer it free, but Amazon requires a 99 cent minimum.


9
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Tuesday 18 July 23 22:23 BST (UK)  »
Part 3 of 3

You will note that upon the 6th renewal of 1798, we see that the Principle Lessees are named as James, William, George, and Stafford DOWNING. 

There are references to George DOWNING, b. c.1731, that describe him as eldest son of Bernard DOWNING - see eBook
Deed Vol 303 ; Image 309
Deed Vol 189 ; Image 649
It is believed Bernard was the brother of Stafford (the elder) DOWNING of Dreenan, and grandfather to Stafford the 1734 Lessee, by his son John.
George's brothers, as gleaned from deeds and as Principle Lessees to the Stafford Lease, are presumed to be James, William, and Stafford, also John (father of the 1734 Lessee) named in the 7th renewal.  Although all those men would have been in their 60s by the end of the century, and the Principles may have been of a younger generation, but it's unlikely all four names would be identical.

It's also worth noting that 'Sarah', inserted as one of five Principles in 1800, replacing the presumed "life dead" William, could have been the daughter of George DOWNING of Old Town, Ballyscullion, and who had brothers named James, William, and John.  Although that William is known to have died in 1788 (Probate on record), so it's certain he would NOT have been the Principle named in 1798.

On 'William' DOWNING, first named as one of the "lives" in the 1st renewal, dated 6 Oct 1782, I would love to know where he fits in the family tree, because I have yet to positively place my own 4th great grandfather, William.  However, the 'William' mentioned in the lease renewals presumably had passed away sometime between 1798 and 1800, when he is replaced by John and Sarah DOWNING (not necessarily spouses).  My 'William' supposedly survived until 1803 and was probably a flax grower, as were many of the DOWNING farmers of that era.  His son, another 'William', is listed in Slater's Directory of 1846 as a "Linen Manufacturer" of Coagh, a small village just over the southern border in County Tyrone.  Linen is made from flax seeds.

We know the McCann family had some connection to the DOWNINGs of Dreenan, as Bryan McCann is named as one of the three "lives" in the original 1734 lease.

As for the CONVERY family and probable connections to DOWNING and O'NEILL ; there are still CONVERYs living on Rocktown Road to this day, primarily along the eastern end towards Gulladuff Road.

I don't have any information on the CARMICHAEL family.

I may have missed a few things, but wanted to put up a response to several new comments.  Hope you find something of value.


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